Why would you think a [i]community manager[/i] has any real control over the sandbox? He's commenting on his personal experience - just like you. Only it's [i]his[/i] job, whether he's a good pvp player or not. And would you expect him to turn down good players who want to include him on their team? Would you?

Another fan boy to the rescue! The reality is he gets carried on stream consistently. They discuss things. He pitches a word to Bungie. Which, by the way, hasn't had an actual sandbox team for a while.... They all quit..... Then oddly enough... Those changes get implemented in the annual update. Need an example? Sunshot. Magazine size was what a lot of those people said needed to be increased. What did sunshot get? They make enough money off eververse alone. Hire a sandbox team. Also, split the sandbox PVP/PVE. That's literally what was stated at E3 with the announcement of D2. " With our greatest, bestest new engine we will be able to split the sandbox ". I guess that was just another marketing lie. Case closed. Rested. Adjourned.

The old sandbox leads aren't at Bungie anymore. We don't know why. They might have been fired. Pvp mains certainly weren't happy with them. Bungie has separated the sandboxes more recently than ever before, which has nothing to do with the things I said. You've just avoided my points and then claimed victory. Typical.

I gave explicit examples of proof. You couldn't debate it and tried to flip the script. Previous Bungie crucible team left back in forsaken. Bungie then had some people come in and fill gaps. These people were from sweat clans. They publicly announced that they left because Bungie [b]blatantly[/b] ignored them. You haven't given anything. I've given you all you need. You blindly defend Bungie. Aka fan boy.

Yes, because saying that a community manager doesn't control the sandbox is real "fanboy". Let's see some proof about your sandbox team claims. Hiring people from sweaty clans instead of professional game developers seems kind of strange. Maybe they were just consultants, because if they were the sandbox team... who was ignoring them? But you never know. How about some links? I am a little confused about "defending Bungie". What did I say that does that? Do you mean disagreeing with you? Or being objective?

" community member doesn't make sandbox updates... Blah blah blah... " You're missing the point. We [b]KNOW[/b] he doesn't implement the changes himself. We also [b]KNOW[/b] that he [b]CONSTANTLY[/b] gets carried on stream. [b]WHILE[/b] he is pegging about input and such. Which.... Ironically.... Most, if not all, things that are said are then implemented in some form later down the road. If you understand development lead time, then this shouldn't be hard. Let's say we discuss a change today, you say yup... Got it. In about 6-8 months that change should arrive because there are already other things in the works, but you now have a sticky note for what to do next. Also, don't kid yourself. The dude is all over the forums stating " I will pass that along to the developers and sandbox teams. " The auto rifle buff? The season before season of the worthy, there was a forum post about auto rifles being " bad " which... They weren't.... But I digress... DMG shows up and says " I will pass this along " and low and behold... Here we are. BSK Change. Before you fan boy over that and cry " well TV said BSK is all mean... " Nope. This dude wasn't part of that. The dudes who did that are less than scum and don't deserve any place in the community. He went to work with Bungie along side others who then also quit stating things like (paraphrasing) " [b]We are honestly surprised at how very little the devs and sandbox teams know about their own game.[/b] " And " [b]they are more focused on the casual players and getting new players in than player retention[/b] " And " [b]they have disregarded our input, so we have chosen to leave.[/b] " I have given you [b]MULTIPLE[/b] examples and you still blindly follow Bungie. You have given [b]ZERO[/b] counter debate, and instead just ask for me to reference everything that I'm stating... Which.... Most people ( hardcore who actually care about the state of the game ) know all of these things already. Nothing I have stated is out of touch. Nothing I have stated is wrong. You're being a real Karen right now.... Now, provide me with some proof that I'm wrong. I would [b]LOVE[/b] to see it. If not, piss off.

I heard about Change leaving after like 2 weeks, but I could never find any info on why he left. Where did you hear all of that? If that’s true, that’s honestly exactly the type of culture I’d expect to be present at Bungie regarding PvP.

He explained it in a community discord. Screenshots of it were taken and then put on reddit. I'm sure if you dig you can find it. You're right. He was asked by Bungie to come in for 6 months, but only stayed 2 weeks.

You’d think that would be a rude awakening for Bungie. Clearly it wasn’t.

Don't let their " we are independent now " fool you. Minimal advertising costs because the " content creators " non-stop talk up the next thing coming. Free for Bungie. Entire podcasts built by the community that do nothing but deliver daily and weekly news / doscussions which keeps destiny relevant. Free for Bungie. They don't sponsor tournaments, they don't hold a lot of events. They do do a lot of charity things, but can you account for the money personally? If you have me $10 and I told you I donated it to charity instead of my gas tank would that make me a saint or a liar? Also big charity donations used to be tax breaks. I think it changed now and had to meet a minimum value... Which this community definitely does it there is a value. I haven't looked for a while but the active player count across all platforms at one point was 2 million? Podcasts like to throw that number out there. " Biggest and most successful " . So they have roughly 2 million players that paid $30-75 for shadowkeep depending on the " edition " plus the season pass plus beyond light pre orders? Plus their recent 100 million contract with a separate entity? Now for hard copies subtract packaging. Of course each platform takes their cut, but I can't imagine the total of those two is more than 30% per unit. Come on man. Bungie has money. You'd be a fool to say they struggle. There is no reason they can't hire a real sandbox team. So at this point... Again... I love the community. I enjoy the game...but at this point Bungie has shown zero interest in taking any of their player base serious over the past 6 years. I welcome the next game / dev team that tries to take a shot at Destiny, and I hope they succeed. That would force Bungie to either put up or shut up. I'd love to know if all the recent people who have also left. The entire crucible team. That lady who was a lore lead writer. Deej. Etc. I would love to know if there was some other reason and they have a NDA barring them from discussing it. It just doesn't make sense to me. You work for and on the " best looter shooter in the genre ", you claim it's the best community you've been a part of, and then you randomly quit? Life happens, yes .. but that's like 10+ people in the past year and a half that held [b]big[/b] spots. Not some floor sweeper. That similar to what happened with anthem. Look at it now. Didn't this also happen in the middle of D1 when they were working on D2? Might be wrong but I thought there was something about that too... I'll wait and see what this new dlc brings. It's going to kill PvP for sure. Every first implementation of CC does. Overwatch, division, now destiny. Is what it is. I guess now's a good time to get out, end of the year... No money invested so nothing holding anyone back.

I know they made $300M in 2019, and their contract with Activision was $500M over 10 years. I’d love to know where that money went. Are they still paying off Activision? Are they saving it so they can expand? Who knows...

It doesn't really matter. The point is, they could 100% pay a team to balance the crucible and provide more updates than once a year. They 100% choose not to. Just as they 100% choose to implement artificial difficulty in PvE activities. That's my entire point. Bungie has made more excuses about balance than actual attempts at doing so... Yet back in 2016 when they were revealing D2 they claimed their new engine would " allow for easier and faster updates along with the ability to split tune PvP and PvE. " Yet.... We now know that to be false because since the launch of the game Bungie has done nothing but say how difficult it is working with the engine the game is built on. So.... Again. People need to stop defending Bungie. They have lied from the beginning. If this was Bioware, Bethesda, Massive, or anyone else... There would be riots. But not for the beloved Bungie. It's hypocritical. If you call that out, you're " toxic " and a " hater ". Again. I love the community. I enjoy the game. But Bungie needs to quit toying with people and actually deliver on their half baked promises. The new consoles and new games being released are going to put pressure on the franchise. It's not a gimmick. It's real. Look at the line up of the first year. Bungie could be in serious trouble if they don't take it seriously.

D2 isn’t even on a new engine lol. I do think I remember them saying something along the lines of more frequent sandbox updates though. The BL delay will hurt them, since Nov is jam packed with huge releases.

[quote]You mean a dude that gets carried in multiple streams a weekend isn't a sound voice to base balance adjustments off of? Weird... I thought that would be the perfect opinion to resonate with.[/quote] Exactly why I said that. 😂

Mans a shitter who simply regurgitates what he hears other people say.... Mainly PC players. Which is why you have a semi balanced PC sandbox and a horror fest on console. Hire a real sandbox team. You got the money. Stingy ass developers.

I’ve seen him give shitty (and even unprofessional) sandbox takes before on Twitter, like saying that Bastion is fine and only shotgun apes are upset about it. Another time, a streamer Tweeted a video of Burning Maul rounding a corner a full 90 degrees to kill him, and DMG’s response was “But you still won the game though, right?” DMG and Bungie don’t get it. And I agree. I know they’re strapped for resources now, but if they just went all-in and hired a qualified PvP team and committed to making PvP balanced and competitive, they would absolutely get a return on their investment. Imagine if Destiny was a top 5 PvP game... Its already THE looter shooter by a long shot. It would be HUGE.

Balance the game competitively and it will be the best looter shooter hands down. It's not hard.... There's a rules listing... It's not difficult to figure out why some things are banned and others aren't. Honestly just roll back to the season of the worthy sandbox and leave it alone. That's the closest thing to balance destiny as a franchise has ever been. Right. Bungie logic makes me giggle when I hear it. Shotguns have to much range at 8-9m and no special should 1 shot with ease like that so let's nerf shotties to be inconsistent at 7m and leave fusions at 35+ meters. Another prime example of why they need a real crucible team. Real. As in someone who doesn't bottom frag and get carried every card. Side arms should be specials. Ironically the main voice that cried about 150 hand cannon a being " easy " uses side arms.... Which lesbehonest it's a legendary TLW that has range similar to 150s. 150s make it hard for 140s to breathe? Maybe they shouldn't have been given the same range values stupid. Literally every hand cannon hard capped at the same range for the past year. So no shit no one used anything but 150s.... Big brain. This game is dead to me 🤣 [spoiler][b]The worst part is... We truly just want the game to be balanced.... And we are seen as " toxic " because that's the narrative some content creators have painted for the past 3 years. The BSK issue doesn't help.... If anything it validated what they've been crying about. [/b][/spoiler]

You’re right, it really isn’t that hard. People say they would have to completely separate PvE and PvP, but that’s not true at all. They just need to be careful when balancing and when creating new weapons and armor. Certain perks could even function differently in PvP, like that Hunter exotic that makes you go invisible after melee kills. Issues need to be responded to more quickly, and certain things should be disabled until a fix is deployed. They could have a tournament rules playlist for tourneys and for practice. It could have one weapon per archetype, each with a static roll.

Now I'm not saying ' The Division 2 ' doesn't have its own problems.... Because dear God the foam shield builds...... My favorite thing from that game though is the split of PvE and PvP that you can actually see in a stats tab. Sure, it suffers from what every looter shooter suffers from ... That end game... But the build potential is ridiculously fun. Then there's godsfall, cyberpunk, watchdogs, outsiders, etc coming out maybe even a division 3, I would scream. Then anthem 2.0 will pop up for another shot at the title.... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Seriously, Bungie is in a pretty bad spot. They aren't " the best " they're just currently the best option. If any of these new arrivals blow up.... With the combination of new engines providing a better experience.... I say this with love. I really do. I hope destiny dies, so that Bungie is forced to quit fiddling around and actually provide the product they have promised everyone for the past 6 years. This " seasonal model " that can be completed within a week isn't going to hold anyone off those games.

I agree the past year has been bad and Destiny can be so much more than it is currently, but I disagree that it isn’t king in the looter shooter genre. Every game that has come out in the genre has failed to reach Destiny. In fact, they all try to emulate Destiny. Paul Tassi wrote an article on this a few weeks ago that explained it well.

The past year? Everything about destiny 2 is a failure. After the honeymoon phase of every dlc release, people realize that there isn't much depth to it. Year 1? Forsaken? Shadowkeep? Destiny does well for two reasons. 1. It was first. 2. The community latched on and made it better. The game itself is mediocre if we are being honest. It has potential. Yes. That's very true... But every game in this genre has potential. Division 3 could be stellar. Destiny 3 could be where Bungie finally gets it right, don't hold your breath.. Anthem next aka 2.0 could blow both of them out the water. The reality is end game depth is what struggles in this genre. Face it, a 6 hour campaign update once per year.... Then the next year of filler is strikes... Which are story missions that were cut out for the most part. Season pass ranks that give you some horrible rolls on armor. Nightfalls? If you aren't searching for exotics they serve no purpose. Raids? Fun. I'll admit that destiny raids are leaps and bounds above the competition... Except D2 raids haven't lived up to D1 raids in the slightest if we are being honest. With the except of last wish and Leviathan IMO. PvP is the end game. Like it or not. It is. Back in year 1 when the game was on life support due to a lack of depth... Trials released and the numbers of active people / viewers surged accordingly. PvE has zero depth. All " builds " hinge around the same identical subclass. The same identical gun. No individuals, no diversity. Yet .... When something comes up that is better or is good. " Power creep, over powered, nerf it ". [b]Roll back to season of the worthy. It was the closest thing to balance this franchise has ever seen. [/b] Destiny isn't good. It's your best option all around. Let one of these upcoming games do it even slightly better and Bungie underperform for [b]another[/b] year.... That would be the nail.

Well yeah, Y1 was worse than Y3. You can’t deny that Y2 was one of the best years ever in Destiny though. Again, I agree D2 and even D1 to a lesser extent have underperformed more often than not, but when they get it right, it’s incredible. And that’s why people get hooked. I just wish it was more consistent.