JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by TokiZensekai: 6/7/2019 2:28:10 AM
38

Let's actually give some constructive feedback on the Exotic Armor Nerfs, shall we?

Foreword: I've posted a video that shows a [u]CONTROLLED TEST[/u] of the Super Energy generating Exotics, I will be using this as a reference point throughout my post. So, when Bungie first announced the nerfs, I was on the side who was not looking forward to the changes and even now, I'm still a bit on edge about this given my time since the update dropped. Ever since the update, I've been seeing one side who has complained loudly about the issue and the other side who is basically telling the complainers to "Git gud". I want to give both sides of this update a hard look and see where both are justified and where both are "overreacting" for lack of a better word. The Do Not Nerf side: It is understandable why no one would want these exotics to be nerfed in the first place, they provided a META to strategies when it came to certain activities, specifically Raids, Reckoning, and Gambit. Being able to get most, if not all, your energy back from a single super use allowed for an easier run or to give the user some leeway in case a situation called for a second super. In some cases, like the Bridge of Folly or Seuro Chi, if a Hunter missed their Thether, the energy returned would at least mitigate some of the stress on the encounter and recover with orbs dropped, but now this ends up requiring a Hunter to be more precise with their bow shots, otherwise it could cost the whole team the run. The "Content" side: The players who are fine with the nerf have given the argument that because these nerfs have happened, you now have to either get good with your super (timing, accuracy, etc.), piggyback off of other player's light, or rely on your own light from Masterworks. Which is true, in a 6 Man Raid or the Menagerie, if at least two or three players coordinated their supers, a super could potentially be recharged if done correctly, or at least, the orbs from masterworks can top it off if necessary. Now, here's the problem, who do you think this is going to hurt the most? Solo players. It may come as a surprise to some people, but not everyone plays in a group or with friends, there are plenty of players who player on their own and many of them like to have these supers handy for things like weekly challenges, because even if they play in a matchmaking game mode, there won't always be that coordination to reliably get super back. And I would like to add that the video I posted was done in a controlled setting. All the times I and my friends have tested, we were inconsistently getting super back. Some points we got less than 25%, other times we got as much as an orb of light worth, and other times we got NONE back. So where do we stand exactly? The META primarily remains the same, but you have to be extremely cautious with how you operate. If you're playing in a Raid or Reckoning, you can still reliably get super back if you coordinate correctly, but if you mess up, you're going to potentially cost your team the run. You have to rely more so on other players now as well as masterwork weapons in order to top yourself up if you even get any marginal amount of energy back from the exotics. Are the exotics completely worthless? Not entirely, but they are now a shadow of what they once were; if you're playing in a Raid or Reckoning mode, you need to be more precise with your casting. However, as a solo sandbox use, there are other exotics and supers you can run around with for your enjoyment that haven't exactly needed to rely on exotic armors. Now, here are my [u]personal[/u] thoughts on how the Super Energy Exotics should be reworked: - Items like Ursa Furiosa and Shards of Galanor should behave like the other exotics where they gain energy immediately upon receiving or dealing damage. As it stands, because of their behavior, the amount of energy they return are extremely inconsistent. - The Skull of Dire Ahamkhara's original function should return where dealing damage to Elites, Majors, and Bosses returns more energy depending on the enemy type, but be like how Phoenix Protocol works now and caps at 75% ~ 80%. As it stands, only having the Skull return the same amount of energy regardless of enemy makes the Skull extremely damning against bosses and only serves to be used against ads, which is [b][i]NOT[/i][/b] what Slova Bomb was meant for. I think if there should be any middle ground between the nerf and for those who relied on the Super Energy Exotics, I feel the energy returned from using the exotics should be either returned to their normal values or at least increased from where they are now, but place a fairly decent cap like 75% ~ 80% as it currently works with Phoenix Protocol. This would still meet Bungie's design of limiting constant super usage, but still allow players to at least mitigate the nerf by picking up orbs from other players or masterwork weapons and solo players could still enjoy using them without feeling like their fun is being throttled by the nerf.

Posting in language:

 

Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

  • This is the kind of feedback post I like even if I tl;dr some of it, while I sit on the chill side with the nerds some of the constructive idea about the energy returns is great in my opinion capping off at a center point personally I dislike how Shards energy returns work same goes for orpheus rigs with top tree tether where if you die you lose the entirety of your energy gain, understandable yes but annoying none the less especially when Shards has been so lackluster and seemingly random with how much you get back in my experience never used Ursa personally however.

    Posting in language:

     

    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by blade329: 6/7/2019 10:03:01 PM
    As a solo player, I often rely on the powerful gear to help me out. Super regenerating exotics really helped me get past some of the tougher missions on my own. Obviously, I dislike any and all nerfs. Part of the problem with this game is that it gives you so few alternatives. So, Bungie doesn't want us to use these super regenerating exotics, well then give us alternatives. Don't give me walking garbage like the Mechaneer's Tricksleeves and Aeon Swift gloves and expect me to be happy. They can nerf Shard of Galanor all they want, but it's never going to make me want to use crap like this. It's really funny to me how 80% of these exotics got the okay by Bungie devs in the first place. Who thought this was okay? Who thought that players would actually want to use these things?

    Posting in language:

     

    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

  • Stopped using skull, a quarter bar (which is what you get back 98% of the time) is not worth using.

    Posting in language:

     

    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

    4 Replies
    • Part of the problem are the useless exotics they have to offer. Why is Kephris Sting as bad as it is? Why does Stronghold even exist? How can they look at all these exotics and mutually agree that Winter’s Guile is in a right place?

      Posting in language:

       

      Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

    • A very well put post! I'm a solo player and haven't played since they announced they were destroying my o rigs. I'd like to add that back in d1 we also had armour that had awesome perks for getting your super back, Eg, heavy weapon kills on minions of the darkness grant super energy. Same perk with special weapons, grenades and melee. I could tether a bunch of enemies, kill all tethered enemies with my sword and instantly have my super back. We didn't have o rigs in d1, just better armour with better perks. To be honest, I'm really enjoying d1 again, the pvp is sooo much more fun. Well done ruining d2, bungie! Nerf more stuff so more people come back to d1 and we can reduce those pvp waiting times ;)

      Posting in language:

       

      Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

      3 Replies
      • They nerf for one reason makes ypu playmore hours on this game.keep the grind to the maximum.

        Posting in language:

         

        Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

        1 Reply
        • I’m just sad they kicked the dead horse that was ursa, that thing was turned into trash and now it’s just in the grinder

          Posting in language:

           

          Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • First of all, Bungie should thoroughly test the gear. Release it, leave it alone. No nerfs should be ever be necessary, if they do their jobs correctly. And to nerf, to dictate how we play the game is just wrong. I do agree that super energy returns be capped at 75-80% max. I tested the skull after the nerf, and was only getting 20-30%, where I was getting 75-100% prior. I was so disgusted, I promptly stopped playing the game.

            Posting in language:

             

            Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

            6 Replies
            • Skull of Dire Ahamkara was completely overnerfed. I struggle to even get half of my super back now.

              Posting in language:

               

              Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

              3 Replies
              • All super regen exotics are so horrible now. So not a single exotic is worth using anymore. hey don't feel exotic. They feel like Rare or Legendary. Bungie handled this completely wrong. I don't even bother equipping exotics anymore.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                2 Replies
                • Super regen exotics were the best or the only gear that felt like exotic the rest is trash, i mean mechaneer's tricksleeves? Rly? Or the New Hunter gloves and this list is longgggggg

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                • I've only used the the Orpheus Rigs and Shards of Galanor, and the Rigs can still be pretty beneficial. I think they should have a quicker catch rate and larger catch radius to compensate now with the Trapper tree. As far as the Shards, I'll test them more when it's a Solar week, right now, I've only thrown 2 barrages with them on, and both were laughable at best.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                • The new raid would have been a joke and finished withing 2 hours if they didnt nerf the exotics. I appreciate a good challenge.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                  12 Replies
                  • I knew the nerf to Skull was bound to happen eventually. And, quite frankly, it was ridiculous seeing so many people running it and nova. But I don’t agree with the nerfs to rest of the other exotics. I mean, what’s the point of having a super returning exotic when most of the time, picking up orbs gives more super energy anyways? Tether, Middle Tree sentinel and blades are pretty much neutered without those exotics and there’s not really any good alternatives to run now. I think it would have been better if they were just slightly adjusted, rather than just nerfed into the ground.... or if they gave us some other viable exotics to run in their places that didn’t break their idea of the game. Nerfing them to make content “more difficult” just seems like a cop out. I mean, D1 didn’t have exotics like that and some activities were still hella hard, so we know they can make things more difficult, they just choose the lazy approach. And that kills it for us...

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                  • To be honest, super regen exotics were a bad idea to begin with. These exotics would be way more balanced (and fun) if they simply buffed the super itself. For example, Skull of Dire Ahamkara could increase blast radius and damage for all Nova Bombs. It could also boost the effects of each type of Nova Bomb (Cataclysm=more seeker bombs, Vortex=more damage+duration). Another example, Orpheus Rigs could increase damage dealt to tethered targets, and increase the radius of the tether.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                  • Adapt, find new ways as Calus did when he reached the void

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                  • i think its great, now i can get some kills with a grenade launcher instead of some moron nova bombing every section.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                  • They are still best in slot IMO. Anything that gives you super energy faster is far greater for pve or endgame content than something that doesn't.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                  • So, if the practical meta is largely unchanged in terms of how endgame (broadly speaking) content is approached and what exotic armor people are choosing, that suggests what we have from Bungie is a failure of design. I suspect the root of the issue is that, at least as far as PvE is concerned, super energy recharge simply vastly outperforms any other stats that exist, so without Bungie making a more meaningful effort to more deeply redesign exotics to make them more attractive or simply rebalance how exotic armor benefits players, it’s difficult to see overly positive outcomes here other than simply trying to reign in player power for the sake of easier content difficulty tuning for the designers. In short, and unsurprisingly, your findings seem consistent with what an observer of Bungie’s sandbox handling would expect: they’ve made adjustments to only a narrow piece of the sandbox when actually attempting a meaningful and full solution to the sandbox problems requires targeting a much wider slice.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                    3 Replies
                    • Only nerfed exotic ive used so far was pheonix protocol and i took it off mid well and put on lunafaction boots which i forgot how useful they were lol so i dont think im terribly upset.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                      2 Replies
                      • If the Slova bomb wasn’t meant for adds then why does it release seekers after the explosion? It makes more sense that the other nova bomb is for bosses since it leaves behind an aura that damages whatever is inside, a boss, because anything else will be killed before that.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                      • They should completely redesign those exotics. Orpheus Rig: Shadowshot lasts longer, has increased range, and weakens enemies even further. Shadowshot deals more damage on direct hits. (Still increases the duration of Mobius Quiver as well) Shards of Galanor: Adds a third wave of blades to Blade Barrage. Increases the radius of Blade Barrage explosions. Ursa Furiosa: Blocking damage increases Sentinel Shield's damage, and recharges Shield Throw. Void Detonators applied with Shield Throw or Banner Shield deal more damage, and any remaining Detonators explode when the Super ends. Skull of Dire Ahamkara: Vortex Novabomb has increased radius and duration. Cataclysm gains 2 additional Seekers on detonation, and increased tracking range on Seekers. Gwisin Vest: Spectral Blade kills increase damage and sprint speed. Gain Invisibility and Truesight for a short time (~8 seconds) when the Super ends. Phoenix Protocol: Increases the effect of Benevolent Dawn, and grants it to allies standing in the Well or your Rift. Kills while in Well of Radiance extend the duration of the Well, and produce Orbs of Light.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                        8 Replies
                        • Great post, Toki! Seriously man. Well done.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                        • It still feels the same in some activities. Just got to get used to it. It’s just not as good in your everyday activities. The activities that were designed around these still feel the same. I have only used the Hunter exotics since I haven’t had much time to play, but I assume the same can be said for the Warlock Exotics. Ursa Furiosa didn’t really need a change. It was already underwhelming for the most part

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                        • Imo just buff the weak exotics alot because there are so many and rework a few

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                        • I thank you for doing this. I see now that we can still work with these exotics, and that it's really not as bad as people made it out to be.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Cancel Edit Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Create Fireteam Post

                          1 Reply
                          You are not allowed to view this content.
                          ;
                          preload icon
                          preload icon
                          preload icon