I really want to believe that they are doing what you’re saying, but at the same time, to me, it still feels like they are desperately clinging to the PvE/PvP blend in any capacity that they can. I REALLY wish they would just try a single season of not tying any quests or character progression to any PvP aspect at all just so we could see how many people play it simply because they enjoy it. This whole vicarious PvP participation thing that they do has always annoyed me. It just doesn’t work in an way at all.

I'm afraid that you aren't going to see them do that. They aren't going to kill PVP outright, because its too big a part of the playerbase. But I do believe you're going to see Crucible get handed out the same treatment that Gambit is getting. Just slowly remove resources and support from it, and allow it to slowly wither. You'll still see quests involving PVP. But I don't think you'll see much in the way of new game modes, new maps, etc... Like Gambit they'll recycle and optimize existing assests....but I don't expect to see very much in the way of new resources directed towards it.

I don’t even want them to outright kill either. I just want any quests to have options so that it’s completely avoidable if a player wants to avoid it, and to not limit weekly player level progression for not participating. I’ll never understand how they think that it could be stable and balanced when there are all these players running around not using their optimal gear for competition, in a competitive game mode where the end goal is just completion and kills. There is no real incentive for the majority of players to actually care about winning in a competitive mode. They just want what they want for their own character. You’d think the players that DO care about competition and winning wouldn’t want those kinds of players on their team.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. You've been here on this forum for 15 years, but I don't know how involved you've been in Destiny. The point you're making is a valid one, but its a seperate one that isn't really PVPs fault. Its more about Bungie's self-image as a developer and their approach to game design. I didn't really play any of the Halo games, so I really didn't interact with Bungie until Destiny. IMO, this game has had THREE major problems that its had to overcome, and have been the cause of most of its difficulties. 1. The Success of Halo created this ENORMOUS shadow that prevented Destiny from becoming its own game, and developing its own strengths. Because so many people wanted it to be a successor to Halo...especially Halo's legacy of competitive PVP and e-sports. Smiths "Unification of Vision" is Destiny's roadmap to FINALLY getting out from under that shadow. 2. The Success of Halo created a sense of arrogance at Bungie and a sense of infallibility. A sense that everything they touched turned to gold...and because they were good at making shooter games, they would be good at making Action-RPGs (they aren't...and they've been unwilling to learn from those who are.) But it also created this sense that they are entitled to MICROMANAGE every aspect of the player experience. It has gotten better over time, but the player has always had to fight this sense of "We're Bungie. We Know Best". Translation: We're going to make you play OUR game, OUR way...and if you won't do it willingly, we're going to twist your arm and force you to do it. 3. Problems 1 and 2 gave us Vanilla D2. One of the biggest (imo) DISASTERS of product branding since Coca-Cola tried to change its formula (without asking its customers) back in teh 1980s. Point? Points 1 and 2 led Bungie to make a game that was basically Halo 5.5, only they didn't realize that their customers weren't interested in playing that game. So they had to shift gears and try to turn the game into the looter-shooter/MMO hybrid that the player base actually wants to play. But with a game whose foundation wasn't design to generate the loot or allow the power-progression those kinsd of games need. So for the last two years Bungie has been trying to redesign this game on the fly while still supporting it with new content, and while people play it every day. Which raised the question: [i] How do you get people to continue to play a game as IF it were a loot game, when it doesn't really have any loot to chase??[/i] Bungie's answer was the Milestone System. A progression system that BREAKS the rules of RPGs and basically turns progression from an investment of your time....to an outright GAMBLE of your time. You insert your time and energy like a token into a slot machine....pull the handle...and hope it spits out something that will actually progress your character. They then compounded the problem by literally walking us around EVERY part of the game like we're 4 year olds crossing a busy street, and forcing us to play EVERY part of the game in order to level up efficiently. But the the limited drops and the RNG makes sure that we CANT do that....so we have to keep coming back each week to do it. Bungie succeeded in keeping us playing despite the game's lack of loot and limited power to offer....but its come at the price of an exhausted, angry, and cynical player base. You're issue is part of that same mentality. Instead of just accepting that some players just don't enjoy PVP, and letting just rewarding you for playing the parts of the game that you do like (which is where Smart Loot was doing at the end of Destiny1)..... ...again, Bungie is micromanaging the player, and forcing them to interact with parts of the game that they don't enjoy. Failing to appreciate in their desire for a short-term result....that the, in the long term, the burn out and resentment you're currently feeling is going to be the inevitable result. So Bungie risks winnign the battle....but eventually losing the war.

I agree specially with how toxic the higher tier sweats are I imagine bungie wants nothing to do with them.