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Edytowany przez użytkownika xVARYSx: 12/4/2014 1:09:52 PM
337

The gear treadmill and why "clearly you've never played an MMO" is a misguided response to those upset by recent news

So I've been trying to put my finger on exactly what is so irritating about this patch to me -- someone who played WoW for 8 years, quite actively (well over a year of /played time), someone who should have (ostensibly) been prepared for this kind of gear reset. Here's the thing: Destiny isn't WoW. As much as I might wish it were a lot more like WoW, it's being managed by a company with no experience in MMOs (or MMO-lite games, which is more accurate for Destiny) or loot-based games, and it's showing. There are a billion things that have been learned over the course of 15ish years of MMOs and 10 years of WoW that have been utterly ignored by Bungie in their development of Destiny, like RNG mitigation, social tools, and encounter design, but those really aren't the issue here. The issue is that Bungie has an absolute metric buttload to learn about communication. People keep comparing Destiny to games like WoW, saying that anyone who is surprised or shocked or frustrated with the latest news of exotic resets has clearly never played another MMO. Otherwise, obviously that person would understand the nature of the gear treadmill and that this was bound to happen. And sure, maybe it was. But the difference between WoW (or nearly any other well-managed MMO) and Destiny is quite simply that Blizzard wouldn't make a change like this without: a) forewarning the community in ample enough time to get feedback before implementation was a week away b) ensuring the community didn't throw away invested time in something that was only going to last a week, or c) releasing the information from the horse's mouth before it got out through a third-party like Game Informer. News like this is pretty massive. In a game like WoW, this type of change would be saved for a major expansion -- one that comes years after the release of the previous, not three months afterward. Beyond that, the nature of the exotic change is quite a bit different from the nature of a gear reset in a traditional MMO. A gear reset in WoW typically changes very little of the basic playstyle of your character. You might lose a set bonus that makes one of your spells work slightly differently, or you might end up short of a haste breakpoint that slightly alters your optimal spell rotation. But generally speaking, a resto druid is going to play like a resto druid, regardless of what gear you're wearing or what weapon you're wielding. But in Destiny, guns dictate your playstyle far more than your subclass, or even your main class. The way you play with Thorn, for example, is utterly different from the way you play with Invective. Exotics, in particular, typically alter your playstyle in pretty noticeable ways. So when Bungie says, "oh btdubs, if you still want to use those guns you're going to have to turn them in for New Gun+ and then level them again," you're not experiencing the same feeling as going from 85 to 90 when Mists of Pandaria comes out. Bungie has just limited the options you have for different playstyles in the future -- and that is only considering the having-to-choose-which-exotics-to-relevel bit. That's not including the swath of Vanguard and Crucible and raid legendaries that will be falling to the wayside, into obsolescence, once you're doing hard mode content or Iron Banner next time around. Will there be another gun similar to Vision of Confluence? Sure, but it won't be the same gun. Is Crota's End going to drop a legendary that feels like my 3-tube, Flared Magwell, Clown Cartridge Admonisher III? Maybe so, but I doubt I'll be lucky enough to end up with those same perks (RNGesus plz). The point is, Bungie dropped the ball, not just with this change, but with making sure the community knew what was going on ahead of time. Worse still, they released an update that would cause players to dismantle extra exotics and spend glimmer and materials and time upgrading current weapons, knowing full well that they were about to release an update that would render all of that effort null and void. Other threads have popped up offering perfectly good solutions to this feeling of being shafted - just adding more bubbles to previous exotics, or making sure that only players with fully-upgraded exotics could exchange them for the new tier version. But Bungie didn't do those things, and there's really not enough time for them to make changes like that in the week before The Dark Below releases. Will it get fixed post-release? Maybe, but the damage has already been done. People have already invested Exotic Shards into guns and will now have to invest two more Exotic Shards into the new versions, when they could have just waited a week and saved a shard, and time, and glimmer. The lesson here is that we can't trust Bungie. It hurts me to say that, but as of right now, I feel like playing this game at all is gambling that Bungie doesn't have a plan to wipe away my time investment in a week. And that's not something that's going to change after the expansion is released -- it's something that's going to last as long as we play this game. But that's just it, isn't it? As long as we play this game. I fear, for a lot of people, that time has just run out. TLW: Bungie needs to learn to communicate and stop making bass-ackward design decisions without taking care to inform the community (or worse, deliberately not inform them) first. (i read this post on reddit and give all credit to reddit user seraph 1337) EDIT 1: Im glad this post is taking off like it is on reddit, if you want to read what destiny redditors have to say about this situation here's the link to the OP's reddit post. http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2o8bnf/the_gear_treadmill_and_why_clearly_youve_never/
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  • We're getting the exotics back at 300 atk, while not having it's perks will certainly suck it doesn't take all that long to upgrade items and they've said outright that they are making exotics faster to upgrade. The only real issue I have is the release of exotic shards before this change. If you've had this misfortune of using exotic shards to upgrade your exotics I sincerely hope that bungie is kind enough to give those shards back when you turn that exotic in for its upgrade.

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  • Edytowany przez użytkownika Patient3591: 12/4/2014 8:45:04 PM
    Oh, I can agree Bungie's communication skills suck. But honestly, anyone who wasn't expecting the loot treadmill doesn't know MMOs well enough, anyone who wasn't expecting them to put a way to keep old exotics relevant doesn't know casual games well enough, and anyone who wasn't expecting the process of getting your old exotics up to speed with the new best gear to take exactly as much time and effort as finding and upgrading a brand new exotic doesn't know time sink games well enough. This game is a mix of the three, and if you understood that, you'd have seen this coming miles away. The only thing I didn't expect was for the exotic update mechanic resetting your progress on the item instead of adding another upgrade node that took as much experience to unlock as upgrading the item from scratch. That goes to show Bungie doesn't know behavioral psychology well enough.

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  • I absolutely think a reasonable solution would be to remove the Shard cost of the trade-up for fully-leveled Exotics. I still think releveling is perfectly all right; I'm going to be playing this game anyway, I may as well watch bars go up while I do it. It's not like I haven't spent hundreds of hours with the thing, I'm sure I'll spend hundreds of hours more, and I'll get more XP than I can shake a stick at. Bungie's total lack of warning re: our impending need for boatloads of Shards is unacceptable, and I believe the system needs to change, slightly, in order to accommodate those who spent ground their items into Shards and spent Shards on updating items. No warning is not cool. If they'd just released Shards after this information, I think they could have avoided lots of vitriol. Frankly, I figure anyone who upgraded things with a brand new material days before a major content patch dun goofed, as the Internet kids say these days; that's just not a smart thing to do. Still, I'm not for blaming the victims, and I honestly think better communication of impending changes would have benefited everyone, Bungie included, in this situation. Seriously, though. If you want to make nice with the folks who spent Shards, it's a few hours' work from an intern to patch out the Shard cost for exotics that are already maxed. Lots of us have 'em, and it would be making nice with your most hardcore, most dedicated players.

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  • A bump and an AMEN!

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  • Just because it's a 'standard system' in MMOs does not mean it is a good or fair system. A different game mechanic could be implemented to do the same thing but actually make people happy with it... ...so why not use a different game mechanic?

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    3 Odpowiedzi
    • I like that I can keep my exotics but I hate how Someone who JUST GOT Their EXOTICS gets the benefit of keeping all ascendant materials that I had to use to UPGRADE MY FULLY LEVELED EXOTIC I believe bungie is doing this exotic reset partially because they don't know how to manage a game like this And I believe that they purposely did this reset SO PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THE game for CHRISTMAS/HOLIDAYS would still have incentive to play so they wouldn't be left behind with the new content This same theory would apply to the casual once a week gamers so they aren't left behind also Leave your thoughts

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      1 Odpowiedź
      • I think your all assholes for overreacting this bad it's not like itl take that long to relevel up your exotics

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        5 Odpowiedzi
        • Thank you for saying exactly how I feel. Bungie please listen.

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        • Nice

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        • Donald bump

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        • Could not have been written better . Spot on !Bungie should read this ASAP !

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        • Totally agree, I feel like everytime I feel good about a weapon or strategy I feel like bungie runs out and says "good news every one! We fixed this which means you just wasted a whole week!"

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        • The problem with Bungie... They think we're all idiots. They think the can be sneaky because we are of the masses and they are the GREAT BUNGIE. No. We're nerds, administrators, high schoolers, college students and alike but WE ARE NOT DUMB. Idiots.

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        • Or maybe Bungie is smart and saw that everyone liked to cheese/exploit almost every aspect of their game, and this is their revenge.

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        • It is okay, soon Mincraft will have horses and we can all build high walls of cobblestone to shield us from BungiVisions shady tactics. Come join me in block land and praise the sun, may the force be with you X-Men.....I mean Gaurdians.

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          1 Odpowiedź
          • Bump. Tears shed for the 7 exotics I dismantled for exotic shards and used to upgrade 7 exotics...

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          • Bump, well said OP

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          • I think im getting the picture now. Current exotics were all going to get replaced. No way around that. Bungie knew how much people fetishized them, and thought, people will love it if we just allow then to upgrade their current exotics instead at a cost. People took that as backpeddling (when that's only half true, if at all) and perhaps too procedural? It's ultimately a gift. Expansion tier exotics for what you have now. You don't need ascendant parts anymore and that makes the only real obstacle XP, and a couple exotic shards. Is that so bad?

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            3 Odpowiedzi
            • From Gassdoor.com, a site for employees to review & rate their employers (apparently this is the description for the entire company): Website www.bungie.net Headquarters Bellevue, WA Size 1 to 5 Employees Founded 1991 Type Company - Private Industry Arts, Entertainment & Recreation Revenue Less than $1 million (USD) per year We were duped by less than half a dozen assholes. Makes sense considering how limited the content is..

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              • This isn't WoW. I don't want it to be WoW. If it were or becomes something closer to WoW, I won't be playing.

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              • Because Bungie is like a gamble I do not try anything new they introduce as soon as it comes out I wait a week or two cause it's going to get changed in fact I almost feel like coming back in 4 years and starting with the first destiny. That's assuming it will make it to Destiny 2

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                • Aye! Bump!

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                • Edytowany przez użytkownika HarbingerX1: 12/4/2014 8:18:12 PM
                  The more people respond to me the more angry i am... I probably have 14 pieces of exotic armor maxed and at least half that in guns... a slight dmg/def increase is not worth all the time i put into these pieces Hard mode has all the raid guns and that wont be out until sometime in january.. STOP STALLING BUNGIE... Its awesome for people who just got the gun/armor they can just upgrade it and start leveling but for people who made it a point to farm out materials and experience for that many pieces to just get slapped in the face with a oh well start over... that sucks... I would rather my exotics be useless than to have to max out each one again while someone who just got the gun only has to level it once

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                  1 Odpowiedź
                  • http://www.ebay.com/sch/trinity*collectables/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= http://www.ebay.com/itm/Destiny-Collectors-Edition-Ghost-Figure-Replica-Brand-New-/281519503805?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418bdeb9bd http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replica-Destiny-Hunter-Knife-/271695024099?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f42490fe3

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                  • Seriously this is not a big deal. You upgrade your weapon with a shard to a new tier of weapon. Think about this, if Xur sells the Gjallahorn this weekend, most people don't have it, that would give them a better chance in the new Raid, it would benefit all people and Raid groups. Now imagine that you just got the Gjallahorn but it's not maxed so it's damage isn't as helpful and it doesn't really give you an edge in the new raid when you just wasted an exotic spot for it. This system just helped ALL those people out, the MAJORITY of players just got a hand in the new raid. It's not all about you guys who have been sitting on an exotic from week one. It's not all about alienating new players who really want to play Destiny but because they haven't played since day 1 (due to financial or other reasons). This helps out everyone not only that but it allows all of us to keep our older exotics that we may have become fond of and now they're not worthless.

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                    1 Odpowiedź
                    • Agree completely They really messed up And it seems that they take one step forward(the exotic buff patch) and 5 steps backwards(this patch)

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