JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny

Dyskutuj o wszystkim, co dotyczy Destiny.
7/31/2014 3:12:22 PM
382

All you kiddies that think MatchMaking wouldn't hurt Raiding, just ask a veteran WoW player.

We, in the WoW community, had the same discussion about raiding a few years ago when Blizzard went from Destiny's current model of raiding (find your own group) to LFG (which is basically MatchMaking). I'll sum up what happened and try to be objective and un-biased in an attempt to explain what most of you might be missing in this argument. The complaint back then was that more time was spent looking for a raid group than actual raiding. To be fair, a part of that was because the raid group was up to 40 players in the beginning, now it's 25. After a few years, Blizzard eventually introduced LFG (which, like I said, is just like MatchMaking). The initial result was what we expected, faster setup times pre-raid... but that had an undesirable effect that a big portion of the community did not anticipate. You see, raids used to be a HUGE deal. They took hours and hours to setup, and even longer to progress. It was a grueling trial of not only skill, but leadership. You could have the talent and gear necessary in your group to complete the raid, but without some level headed leaders directing the group you would be destined to fail. Finishing that hours/days/weeks long raid? That was the ultimate feeling. Finally, after all that time spent forming a group, training a group, making all those friends and enemies after nights of failure... you down that last boss. Nothing beats that feeling in gaming, nothing. Now? The raids feel watered down. You log on, click that "find a group" button. Wait 10 minutes. Teleport to the raid, no words are spoken, just throwing 25 random players at a raid that most of the group has done 100 times already. No friends, no enemies. Just a sea of nameless, empty players grinding away at this now trivial Raid. Failure no longer means waiting a day to regroup because half the team had to go to sleep. Failure now means waiting another 10 minutes for another tank to queue up for the raid. What used to feel massive and utterly rewarding has now become a chore. A chore that you must perform over and over again until you can find no enjoyment short of getting that occasional gear upgrade. Blizzard addressed this by lowering the difficulty of "LFG" raids, and made "Normal" and "Heroic" modes that you HAD to group up for. But still, the damage has been done. You never enter a raid with your friends anymore. LFG has become mandatory to gear properly for the "Normal" and "Heroic" modes, but by then you've done these fights dozens of times. There's no thrill of exploring, no thrill of learning the fights and the map. Just a different type of grind that has already lost its appeal days/weeks before you even needed to find a real group to do it with. Look, I know I said was going to try to remain unbiased, but the truth is MatchMaking ruins raiding. Raiding SHOULD NOT be something you do easily. Raiding is a test of your skill against PvE as much as it is a test of your communication skills. But when you allow for a "fast track" method to access the raids, you turn it into a chore that you simply throw yourself at until you arbitrarily find a group that has the DPS/HP numbers on their side. If you're arguing FOR MatchMaking in raids, what you're asking Bungie to do is water down the whole raid experience. Yeah, you'll get to do raiding more often... and that sounds appealing. But I promise, you don't know what the long term damage will be. Please consider this before you make another "PETITION FOR BUNGIE TO ADD MATCHMAKING TO RAIDS". Thank you for reading.
English
#Destiny

Język wpisów:

 

Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

  • People now a days are loosing the ability to adapt to survive in a random unpredictible environment with random players. Is like now a days all hard core tryhard players want to be able to predic every move they make in a game, insted of showing true skill by adapting to a random enviment. Later they all want to be able to pick what opstacles should the game have so that their ideal team can overcome them. Lol

    Język wpisów:

     

    Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

    3 Odpowiedzi
    • Edytowany przez użytkownika Pengu_Imperialus: 8/1/2014 2:24:41 PM
      We did consider it, and all Bungie needs to do is put a disclaimer when you click on it. They have excluded both match making, and general chat (which would allow people to pug independantly). They have neglected all communication outside of fireteams, and require the use of the forums to access in game content (clans). The reason Matchmaking is such an issue is because outside the forums the only recourse we have is spam invite in the towers to put a pug together. Edit- I am also a veteran WoW player and raids were never skill based. Gear and memorization. You could more easily write bots to run 20 characters than organize 20 people for a raid.

      Język wpisów:

       

      Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

      1 Odpowiedź
      • Considering that Destiny is a console exclusive and both consoles come with microphones, you're almost guaranteed to have a social experience during the raids. I personally find matchmaking a good idea especially for those who don't have any friends that have the game. How are you supposed to find people to play with if you don't know anybody to play with?

        Język wpisów:

         

        Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

        3 Odpowiedzi
        • You're a man after my own heart, straight up raids are so pose to be legendary mode where only the best players with the best teamwork finish it.

          Język wpisów:

           

          Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

          1 Odpowiedź
          • Edytowany przez użytkownika its_buttrs: 8/1/2014 10:33:58 PM
            He said for us to ask a vet player....you see the thing is no one is asking you for anything but to go back to WoW and never come back

            Język wpisów:

             

            Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

          • I'm for it and I don't think it would nerf anything. Hear me out. They already have different difficulty levels for raids. Now on halo they had easy normal heroic legendary. Of course they didn't expect the casual gamers to complete legendary or heroic that's why easy and normal is in place. People didn't cry for legendary to be nerfed simply bc of course it's hard they know that there's no reason to cry about it being to difficult when it's simply a fact hard is freaking hard. Just my opinion of course

            Język wpisów:

             

            Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

          • First five words.... nope

            Język wpisów:

             

            Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

          • when did you serve?

            Język wpisów:

             

            Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

          • I used to play WoW. I don't play anymore. There just isn't the satisfaction or sense of accomplishment of getting a group together, going into some difficult content and working together and getting a boss down or the whole raid/dungeon anymore.

            Język wpisów:

             

            Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

            1 Odpowiedź
            • Finally!!! Someone talking some god damn sense

              Język wpisów:

               

              Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

            • Destiny is not wow and is not an mmo

              Język wpisów:

               

              Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

              3 Odpowiedzi
              • THey should include matchmaking for raids, but that doesn't necessarely mean that raids have to be easy. They should remain hard as they say to be and force random people to work together and talk, if not, they will fail, but still they must have the chance to try it. The thing that ruined WoW is that they included the matchmaking, but they also lowered alot raid's difficulty level. If they apply in Destiny the matchmaking but remain unchanged raids difficulty level, for me it's the best compromise possible. And yes, just stop to compare Destiny to WoW, they are 2 completely different games.

                Język wpisów:

                 

                Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

              • Edytowany przez użytkownika sergeantawesome: 8/1/2014 9:18:13 PM
                Who the -blam!- can do, or would want to do a week long raid? And people wonder why MMOs get a lot of shit. This is Destiny, not WoW.

                Język wpisów:

                 

                Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

              • Edytowany przez użytkownika Xellos: 8/1/2014 2:58:26 PM
                So basically casual players that don't have time to spend hours to set up a raid have to subsidize the game for those that have nothing more to do than play? Then casual players should pay a lower price for the game, since they are not going to access all the content.

                Język wpisów:

                 

                Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                5 Odpowiedzi
                • Edytowany przez użytkownika Veolan: 8/1/2014 2:52:24 PM
                  Look I understand and I get where you're coming from. I've played MMO's for many years myself. There's an issue though when it comes to "hardcore" raiding that starts to develop. A lot of "hardcore" raiding Guilds/Clans have more people then what is needed for Raids, so in order to get into the guilds [b]Main[/b] Raiding spot you have to show up every Raid night, otherwise you're not considered part of the [b]Main[/b] Raid group and you can't go. If someone from the [b]Main[/b] Raid group isn't online they go down a list of who's next. Usually it's the person who's been online the most for [b]Main[/b] Raid nights, even though they didn't get to participate. For a lot of casual players and adults this can be very difficult. So when you have large Guilds trying to run a Raid that requires few people you more then likely start running with random people in your clan. Chances are if you’re one of those people who can’t make it every raid night, you’ll be playing with others that can't as well. Then everyone not in the [b]Main[/b] Raid group has changing schedules so they’re practically getting a random group from their clan every time they go in. I’m on both sides of this. I love LFG and I’ve loved it in all the MMO’s I’ve played for the years. I’ve seen many successful Raids with LFG and I’ve had a blast in them. Sometimes they’re bad and you have a horrible time. All you do is leave and then find another group quickly in LFG. I don't know the content at the end of Destiny, maybe it's not as hard as they say. Maybe it's one of the most difficult Raids of all time. I think one of the big problems is there's not really any commutation tools in the game that people can use to make friends or build groups. There's a lot of people who don't use forums and don't want to use an external source in order to participate with in-game content. We will see how well this goes when the game comes out, I bet that Bungie will add in a LFG if barely anyone is doing the endgame content and people are still unhappy on the forums. PS: I get why this is such a big topic, it's because we all love this game so much already and want it to do the best it can and be enjoyable for the majority of people. I'm happy that we are all discussing it in a mature way, not screaming at each other like immature kids.

                  Język wpisów:

                   

                  Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                  9 Odpowiedzi
                  • Who tf has weeks to do a raid? You might want to rethink your life priorities.

                    Język wpisów:

                     

                    Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                    1 Odpowiedź
                    • Yea um I don't even think I want to do these "super hardcore" raids anymore. By the way you hardcore WoW raiding veterans describe raiding, it seems as if it is a hell of a chore and it is not worth it because of that age old saying; it's just a game. If Destiny raids are like these raids you guys speak of, I'll just do one of the many other activities that are in the game, and hopefully I'm not under compensated for in terms of gear because I didn't decide to go and spend countless hours doing these sup3r h4rdc0re n3rd raids.

                      Język wpisów:

                       

                      Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                      3 Odpowiedzi
                      • Nine year WoW rain tank here, and I can say LFR was one of my favorite additions to the game. Some of us have things like friends/jobs/family/other non-game things that lfr lets us work around to raid.

                        Język wpisów:

                         

                        Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                      • 1
                        Given that bungie have already proven (by the moon access and iron banner) that they can have time limited features have any of you stopped to think that raids may come under this and the idea of you jumping in and out of matchmaking raids and farming the hell out of them 24/7 like strikes might be impossible. Of course i'm just hypothesising but so is everyone at this point in time. The people who are drawing comparisons to WoW are no more right or wrong than those bringing up halo/borderlands as a counter. No-One knows the content , difficulty, or limitations of raids at the moment so how about you trust bungie and try it BEFORE you demand change.

                        Język wpisów:

                         

                        Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                        4 Odpowiedzi
                        • I'll say to you what I've said on here before about this subject. How will this have any effect on your experience? If the option was there then you wouldn't be forced to use matchmaking. You can still get your five friends together and do your raiding, whereas the people who just want to jump in without trying to recruit others can do so as well. I don't see the problem here in the slightest, this is coming from a wow veteran by the way.

                          Język wpisów:

                           

                          Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                          12 Odpowiedzi
                          • People now a days are loosing the ability to adapt to survive in a random unpredictible environment with random players. Is like now a days all hard core tryhard players want to be able to predic every move they make in a game, insted of showing true skill by adapting to a random enviment. Later they all want to be able to pick what opstacles should the game have so that their ideal team can overcome them. Lol

                            Język wpisów:

                             

                            Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                            4 Odpowiedzi
                            • All I read was "I like to live in my moms basement and hate women so I spend A LOT of time in a massive online point and click game, therefore Im right, lets punish everyone rather than have an option" WOW Such argument

                              Język wpisów:

                               

                              Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                              1 Odpowiedź
                              • No matchmaking would work even better if there was some type of proximity chat/ party chat tabs in social areas. I dont mind the no mm because I'll have 15-20 friends on destiny. [spoiler]not all of them will be worth raiding with though[/spoiler]

                                Język wpisów:

                                 

                                Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                              • No. Huge difference. 6 ppl vs 20+ for a raid. So again. No.

                                Język wpisów:

                                 

                                Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                              • The problem in wow was just you never needed to leave a city

                                Język wpisów:

                                 

                                Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                              • If they will do matchmaking for raids I hope they also consider sth. like a punishment for those randoms who are just AFK or just quit during the raid. I think it should be in a way that really hurts like a 24 h ban of being able to join a raid and also they should lose 1000 points of every faction reputation. Or also being marked as a black sheep in their characters "legend" :P So those -blam!-ers might learn that letting a group down is bad. If somebody really needs to leave, there could be a vote of the other group members if he is allowed to leave without any punishment. I had some strike groups experienced in which 1 player just left during it and it really sucked because we had to do it now with just 2 players and we needed some more time because of the loss of the dps from the 3rd guy.

                                Język wpisów:

                                 

                                Bądź w porządku dla innych. Poświęć chwilę na przejrzenie naszego Kodeksu Postępowania, zanim zamieścisz swój post. Anuluj Edytuj Stwórz drużynę ogniową Posty

                              4 5 6 7 8 9 10
                              Nie możesz zobaczyć tej zawartości.
                              ;
                              preload icon
                              preload icon
                              preload icon