We, in the WoW community, had the same discussion about raiding a few years ago when Blizzard went from Destiny's current model of raiding (find your own group) to LFG (which is basically MatchMaking).
I'll sum up what happened and try to be objective and un-biased in an attempt to explain what most of you might be missing in this argument.
The complaint back then was that more time was spent looking for a raid group than actual raiding. To be fair, a part of that was because the raid group was up to 40 players in the beginning, now it's 25.
After a few years, Blizzard eventually introduced LFG (which, like I said, is just like MatchMaking).
The initial result was what we expected, faster setup times pre-raid... but that had an undesirable effect that a big portion of the community did not anticipate.
You see, raids used to be a HUGE deal. They took hours and hours to setup, and even longer to progress. It was a grueling trial of not only skill, but leadership. You could have the talent and gear necessary in your group to complete the raid, but without some level headed leaders directing the group you would be destined to fail.
Finishing that hours/days/weeks long raid? That was the ultimate feeling. Finally, after all that time spent forming a group, training a group, making all those friends and enemies after nights of failure... you down that last boss. Nothing beats that feeling in gaming, nothing.
Now? The raids feel watered down. You log on, click that "find a group" button. Wait 10 minutes. Teleport to the raid, no words are spoken, just throwing 25 random players at a raid that most of the group has done 100 times already. No friends, no enemies. Just a sea of nameless, empty players grinding away at this now trivial Raid. Failure no longer means waiting a day to regroup because half the team had to go to sleep. Failure now means waiting another 10 minutes for another tank to queue up for the raid.
What used to feel massive and utterly rewarding has now become a chore. A chore that you must perform over and over again until you can find no enjoyment short of getting that occasional gear upgrade.
Blizzard addressed this by lowering the difficulty of "LFG" raids, and made "Normal" and "Heroic" modes that you HAD to group up for. But still, the damage has been done. You never enter a raid with your friends anymore. LFG has become mandatory to gear properly for the "Normal" and "Heroic" modes, but by then you've done these fights dozens of times. There's no thrill of exploring, no thrill of learning the fights and the map. Just a different type of grind that has already lost its appeal days/weeks before you even needed to find a real group to do it with.
Look, I know I said was going to try to remain unbiased, but the truth is MatchMaking ruins raiding. Raiding SHOULD NOT be something you do easily. Raiding is a test of your skill against PvE as much as it is a test of your communication skills. But when you allow for a "fast track" method to access the raids, you turn it into a chore that you simply throw yourself at until you arbitrarily find a group that has the DPS/HP numbers on their side.
If you're arguing FOR MatchMaking in raids, what you're asking Bungie to do is water down the whole raid experience. Yeah, you'll get to do raiding more often... and that sounds appealing. But I promise, you don't know what the long term damage will be.
Please consider this before you make another "PETITION FOR BUNGIE TO ADD MATCHMAKING TO RAIDS".
Thank you for reading.
English
#Destiny
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Edytowany przez użytkownika Will Likely Die: 8/4/2014 9:01:22 AMI ran into tools like you in WoW. Its people like you that took that game from being a game to being a job. So glad I quit playing that crappy game and moved on to a better game.
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The raids have 2 modes already like all the strikes and missions Hard mode "raid" no matching doesn't bother me too much. Top Runescape clan couldn't beat it in 16 hours speaks volumes about the difficulty. But Normal mode with no matchmaking is just being lazy on their part.
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5 Odpowiedzilol wow player. Anyways, I disagree about not having MM. Alot of people would lose a big feature of the game due to not having friends to start a raid. People like to game on their own and find groups instead of forming one. Its just unfair to many players out there.
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Why do you care either way? If you don't like MM then don't use it.. Period.. Play with your friends..
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This is the real problem @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67262665/0/0
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I agree with OP. The future of gaming isn't full autonomy, it's us making the game, grouping up forming clans making friends, that's what makes a game. Imagine a game where the baddest most hated enemy in the game was a large collection of players from a particular college or highschool that just banded together and washed everyone 24/7 that sounds awsome, that's a challenge. That can only happen if serious gamers punch the training wheels off the the newcomers bikes.
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If they had match making, would that have any type of effect in those raiding with 5 other friends?
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your sir. i tip my hat to.
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Thank you for taking the time to write this post. Hopefully those people screaming for matchmaking will read it and think about the consequences adding matchmaking could make.
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Looks like you've over played so wow is just dull to you nothing wrong with matchmaking your just done with wow happens to everyone with every game that came out an will come out that's why new games are always being made we are fighting the attention span of the human mind . P.S. Bright colors help
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Well said!
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2 OdpowiedziI don't know a thing about all this raid and matchmaking stuff and I'm too lazy to read.. Soooo Raids will only be organized through random with random players? Can't have your fireteam join? Or something else? What am I missing? What's the huge deal? I don't know what's going on lol
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Difference is this is a fps
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Yep killing lich king!!! Best feeling of my life
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20 OdpowiedziTypical responses will be "i don't care i wouldn't mind losing i just want to play" "you don't have to use the MM." "communication is already a problem in destiny." "you are overstating and this is not an MMO." I have tried explaining the long term effects of MM on something like this. I have tried solving the issues like with communication. Just invite them to a party chat. I have tried explaining how destiny not being an MMO doesn't matter on this topic. I have tried explaining why clans are being pushed. It's really a losing battle. People now adays are lazy. They would rather the game hold their hand and find people for them instead of grouping up and making friends. People like randoms because it's quicker and easier to fight a team that doesn't know eachother/ work together. Matchmaking is honestly a problem. I understand why it exists and i agree it has a place. But not for something like this. Not for strikes either. If you just feel like slamming down and doing some random shit then fine. Match make away. But things that require time and planning. Things that will wear down people through sheer time spent. Should not have Match making. These raids are supposed to mean something. And match making goes against the spirit of this. And the opposing side is only arguing for convenience. Which not to derail but that's the problem with society as a whole.
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37 OdpowiedziEdytowany przez użytkownika DawnBlue: 7/31/2014 3:40:01 PMPlease consider you are comparing 2 games that are as different as night and day. Please consider you (and oh so many other people on this god damn forum) shouldn't be stuck on the name "raid", because it's not a #/%¤ MMORPG you are playing now and the raids are not the same either. Nobody is asking for easier raids (which LFR has), just the chance to join others. [u]I know it would probably end with millions of people crying about them being too difficult though, which is exactly why I'm in support of the game having better social features so you can actually find a group[/u] Edit: just a side note here - I don't want Destiny to be like MMOs in the way that I would (and I would have to as well, to get a group) study the place I'm going to before going there, knowing exactly what to expect when I enter. I want to go in there having NO CLUE what I will face, with a group of my friends and maybe (if there is at some point a good grouping option) even people I've just met, and find out myself
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Your missing the mark. Matchmaking didn't ruin raiding in wow and this is coming from a vanilla player. I cleared Bwl and in tbc raided several times a week with my small guild. We made it to BT and I loved the sense of progression, the difficulty and the journey. What ruined wow raiding was the difficulties. There shouldnt be 4 versions of the same raid. That made it feel choory and watered down.
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3 OdpowiedziMost of the fun has already been lost in games since party chat came out and now no body talks. In the halo 3 days every single person had a mic now no one does. We need things like bungies new raids that'll bring back the social and team work aspect of gaming that's been lost in most matchmaking games now
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Ya because sitting around for hours shouting for a raid is way better then spending that time actually raiding....I played wow from vanilla to cata...
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11 OdpowiedziI agree, when they added the find a group option to swtor flashpoints/raids became less exciting and too easy to complete. If you make it too accessible then it won't feel as special in the long run
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(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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I agree with this, matchmaking raids will only ruin the true feel of raiding, There will be less communication with the team and wipes will probably be continuous
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Sure Destiny isn't WoW... but what the -blam!- does that have to do with having a derivative aspect of another game to use as a (accurate) basis for comparison? I don't even trust the most of you to use words to convey meaning. jfc.
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6 OdpowiedziDestiny is not WoW.
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1 OdpowiedźI like to think of Destiny's raid as Bungie's Vid-Master challenge achievements. It was really hard to complete some of them but when you completed all of them (like I did), the reward and the satisfaction of completing it was really fulfulling. Hope Bungie makes many more raids in the future!
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4 OdpowiedziI stopped reading at WoW.