First lets talk about why the light most definitely shouldn't win.
We have lightspeed travel (maybe faster? Not sure) and we have infinite lives. We have the capability to go to inhabit the terraformed planets that the traveler made for us.
That there is the issue. The traveler gave us all of these "capabilities" but throughout all of the lore, we are entirely grounded to the sol system. When do we get out of it? When our enemies take us there. The colonization potential of humanity is limitless at this point, but with our infinite lives and godlike powers, we struggle to clear some pirates from space (the fallen, complete failure of a civilization). This is covered in a lore card by the darkness. The traveler coddles humanity, and this is a problem. Because of this, we're helpless when our unconditional gifts are taken. We also know that these gifts don't have to be taken by force, becuase the traveler is completely willing to leave. Humanity is a cult army forced to stay in our solar system to coddle and protect the traveler. We should easily be able to protect, conquer, and spread humanity becuase the enemies are basically powerless against us, yet for some reason every mission is a struggle and guardians still die all the time.
In summary against the light...
1) too much coddling, which is bad for any civilization in the long run
2) questionable motives of the traveler. There's no real reason to believe it's any more than a lifeless rock that drifts from place to place. Or worse, self serving.
3) the cult like results of following it on blind faith are always negative. We should not be bound to our solar system with these powers. Nor should we be bound to our source of power. This is essentially silent blackmail.
A lot of people think that because of that, we should choose the darkness. Here's why that's an issue.
While the light makes humanity completely incompetent, the risk of joining the pyramids outweighs the rewards. Even if the stories are hearsay, it isn't worth it. The real question should not be, "What's the best source of power," nor "which wants the best for humanity." The question should be, "Why do we need an external source of power?"
An external source of power can always be taken, and becuase of that, whatever provides that power can have control. there are positives to the darkness though, if a side must be chosen. For one, the ghaul incident would be impossible. There is no central source of power like the traveler. Where there's a single ship of this huge fleet, there's power still. Secondly, it bodes well for the pyramids that they made the guardians earn their power. Who would you trust more, a guy in a van offering free candy, or a guy that gives you a paycheck becuase you put in the work? It's also nice that the pyramids actually communicate with us. It's ethically questionable becuase they manipulate the ghost to do so though, while the traveler let ghosts have totally free will (independently of their guardians even).
But regardless of this, there are far too many negative stories about the darkness. If everyone from independent species or groups generally believe the same thing about the darkness, then it's probably true. We know that morally questionable beings have been given gifts by the darkness (I should also say, morally questionable by the standards of humanity. Oryx is bad to us, fine to the hive. It's a different culture, but humanity needs what's morally acceptable for humanity evolutionarily speaking. If the darkness doesn't match that, we don't need it).
To sum up the argument against the darkness...
1) morally questionable manipulation of the world
2) more lenient with much *greater* (but not free) power than the traveler
3) everyone seems to have the same account of the negativity of the darkness
4) alien cultures that are twisted through the lens of human culture have a positive view of the darkness
So the real point to all of this, is that it doesn't matter which one is chosen. They're both bad for humanity becuase they're an outside source. They may possess power, but when outsiders came to north america it still didn't bode well for the natives, no matter how many thanksgivings you have. It's not as if humanity is powerless, either. Other species without gifts aren't powerless either. I think we need to remember, who was it that was going to kill oryx first? Was it the lightbearing guardians? Nope, a single cabal ship was completely capable of destroying the dreadnaught until the guardians interfered (for good reason though). So think, were the cabal using mystical gift powers to defeat oryx? Nope, they were using 4 little bomb packs. Bombs. They don't have the light, and they took the traveler. They were more competent in defeating oryx. They have a ship that eats planets to make alcohol. They've controlled vex simulations multiple times. Their civilization is falling because of humanity and humanity alone due to a cult following of the traveler. Arguably they started it, but if they had more forces, there's no reason to believe they couldnt take the city without even taking the traveler. Humanity could have a ton of power. Extra points if you join the cabal and become civilized to eachother.
Then think again. Who made rasputin? Siva? Just some dude, that's who. and just some dudes is what humanity needs, not one cult or the other
I realize no one will see this, but I have too much free time on my hands.
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Both light and dark are tools and may be wielded together
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Ehh it just feels like we are the chosen one, meant to bring balance to the force......oh wait..
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1 OdpowiedźEdytowany przez użytkownika MC 077 Lasombra: 3/7/2021 3:55:41 PMOh boy. Let’s go down the list. The Light 1. Traveler coddles humanity. Wrong. It gave us knowledge, planets to exploit for resources and advanced our physiology. You talk about colonization but forget that when the Collapse happened that’s [i]exactly what humanity was doing[/i]. In fact the first Colony ship that was leaving was doing so to start somewhere without the Traveler. It took its gifts and bounced. Lightbearers don’t leave the system because they [i]want[/i] to protect humanity, who doesn’t have the resources to launch a colony program. They have enough trouble keeping the City running. Running wouldn’t solve any problems either, sooner or later we’d run into enemies with space magic power and get stomped. 2. It isn’t a lifeless rock. It’s been called the Gardner who is the God of creation basically, Unveiling made it clear the Gardner only wanted to give civilizations a boost to combat the Vex who always won the Flower Game. It isn’t there to tell them what to do with the gifts it gives them. That’s called enabling freedom of choice. You can call it irresponsible, cause the Warlords that terrorized the survivors post Collapse are a great example, but lifeless rock is flat wrong. Self serving? Sure. It’s in a cosmic conflict with the Darkness that wants to annihilate anything that can’t fight and survive against its space magic empowered minions. It’ll use anyone to fight back. Ammonites, Ecuemene, Harmony, Fallen and Humanity. Cause guess what? Without its help we will all be killed anyway. It’s a mutually beneficial situation. It just never warned us so we could be prepared. Which was terrible. It’s a little too strict in its non interference policy in my opinion. 3. The cult like following is entirely man made. It’s a simple fact that some Lightbearers refuted the ideology and didn’t suffer for it. People made their choices. Lady Efrideet even mentions a colony somewhere out in space that’s in hiding right now. It’s not blackmail when it’s entirely voluntary. Dead Orbit could take people willing to go anytime but they don’t. They choose to stay. The Dark 1. Morally questionable? Dude it’s inciting genocide across the cosmos. You have not read near enough lore to be judging anything if you don’t know that. 2. Of course it gives more power. It wants conflict and death and giving away more power enables that. Look at the Hive, eons spent destroying one civilization after another. 3. Yeah because it literally says it wants to kill and destroy. That’s obviously not a good thing. 4. This is wondered strangely. The Hive is a civilization that worships death and destruction. It was built around the philosophy of the Darkness. There is no twisting through the lens of human culture. The Cabal destroying the Dreadnought: You do realize that it’s just a ship right? Oryx himself could made a rend in space and just step through and been in the Ascendant Plane and been safe and sound. Not to mention, even if he was on the ship when it blew, it wouldn’t actually kill him. Again, you didn’t read enough and forgot about Crota. Hive Gods can have their physical bodies destroyed and still survive. They go to their Throneworlds to be resurrected back into the material plane. The Books of Sorrow detail this phenomenon. We had to go to their throneworlds with Crota and Oryx in D1 to finish them off. So no. The Cabal plan wouldn’t of killed Oryx at all. You’re also forgetting the one or more of the Nine interfered with our defense systems to help the Cabal invasion. Otherwise we would of been able to set up a defense before they arrived. So even the Red War isn’t a great example of Cabal prowess. It was a rigged match. The Traveler isn’t perfect. It’s irresponsible but not malicious. The Darkness is deceitful and malicious. I do agree the best course would be for humanity to have its own source of power and not be dependent on an outside source. Regardless of whether it’s friendly or not, it’s a liability that can be exploited
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4 Odpowiedzi<Another point against the Darkness is the inevitability of IT becoming the Final Shape, not some other race. Even in a scenario where we choose the Darkness and become a species of edgelords, when all is said and done and all other life in the universe is wiped from existence, who's to stop the Winnower, fore bearer of all conflict, from attacking us? Once that happens, we're screwed. War demands each side give it their all, or all that is necessary. We'd die instantly. When the Gods die, via our hands or their own, Light and Dark powers will no longer have masters. They'd be untamed, but they'd be stagnant, up to the wielders to shape their new meaning. This is the best outcome. For a future of Light alone will end with eternal suffering, and a future of Dark alone will end with nothing. The Gardener and Winnower must die.>
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What I got from that is you like cabal and not the light or darkness
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D2 will finally end the franchise when the agents of the Light and Dark are finally destroyed. The universe will go on.
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Yeah I agree
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Denounce your false Gods, for there is only room for one being such as myself.
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You base many of your points against the Traveler on evidence given from the Darkness, which you admitted has questionable morals. They have every reason to lie, so we can't trust information given to us by those butchers.
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There are [i]some[/i] paragraphs, so kudos for that.
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2 OdpowiedziCan you summarize that? Its just a WALL of text and i dont wanna read that much >_>