First and foremost, I just want to say that these are my thoughts on Bungie's approach to the lore in D2 more than a discussion of actual lore. If you'd like to read actual lore stuff by me, you can check out my [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/226603797?sort=0&page=0]Muzzy Archive[/url].
Hey everyone, Muzzy here. I'd like to give my thoughts on the matter of Bungie making the decision not to continue the Grimoire for Destiny 2. I love Destiny and I love the lore. It's the primary reason why I've stuck with this franchise. It's the thing that cemented my loyalty to this game was the day that I discovered the Grimoire and began reading about all the cool backstories and making the connections between different places, characters, and missions.
The Grimoire was the reason that I truly was able to connect with the community, the reason that I found my clan, The Ashen Conflux. I feel that by removing the Grimoire, Bungie has taken away the chance for another Muzzy to pop up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm elated that Bungie is taking the extra step and adding the lore into the game, but I feel that removing the auxiliary deep lore is also a step back. Gone are the deep epic stories telling of the legendary Guardians performing extraordinary feats and the tales of a tyrant rising to power. Instead, we get spoon-fed information via Ghost scans and dialogue. While this is nice, it isn't enough on it's own. What if we aren't able to find all of the pieces? Then we wot be able to put the story together correctly. A Grimoire card had everything you needed right there.
The lack of an omniscient point of view removes the crystal clear understanding of the lore. With Ghost scans or NPC dialogue, Bungie, whether they know it or not, has instead given us fallible narrators. Now, we can't ever be certain of what we're told is correct because the narrator may have some sort of bias, or might not know all of the information.
And lastly, as someone who writes lore posts, I feel that this change makes it incredibly difficult for me and other lore enthusiasts to put together the pieces. When the article that there would be no Grimoire in Destiny 2 came out, my clan had the collective thought of "Is this the end of the lore? Are we done?" What Bungie is doing with the story-telling is a good thing, but I think that the Grimoire may be necessary to bridge gaps between all the little breadcrumbs of lore out there.
Anyways, this is just my little rant about my feelings of the removal of Grimoire in Destiny 2. I could be completely wrong about all of this; this may be the best thing Bungie could have done. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but have a new level of apprehension about the story of the game leading up to its release.
If you haven't already, please watch the video I've linked above. Mynameisbyf did a much better job expanding and summarizing exactly what I was thinking, but I still needed to write this out for myself. I'll continue to write lore posts for you guys after Destiny 2 releases, but they may be less frequent depending on how this all plays out. Let me know your thoughts on this in the comments.
[b]EDIT: [/b]You guys seem to be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. This isn't about an in-game Grimoire codex or anything. They aren't going to be writing Grimoire cards at all for Destiny 2, and I think that's a mistake.
[b]EDIT 2:[/b] I'm [i]not[/i] saying lore shouldn't exist in game. I'm saying that Destiny's lore is way too vast and complex that without a codex, in-game books, or the grimoire system there is no way we get half the lore we did in D1 without hours upon hours of exposition.
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3 OdpowiedziCan we maybe hold off on the torches and pitchforks until [b]after[/b] we have a crystal-clear understanding of how exactly the in-game lore option will work? The way this community is, Bungie should be giving away free trampolines with every copy considering how quickly people jump to conclusions.
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13 OdpowiedziEdytowany przez użytkownika Cosmic Zaa: 5/24/2017 8:47:33 PMThey'll have lore on stuff now, no need for grimoire. During the gameplay at the announcement, there was an opton to view lore on items.
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It sounds to me like they are just removing it altogether rather than actually putting in the game like everyone wanted in the first place. Also once again refusing to give a straight answer to a simple question.
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Completely agreed. To be honest, this is probably the one thing that could end up driving me away from the Destiny franchise. The grimoire was by far my favorite part of Destiny, and without if I don't know if it will ever feel as epic as it used to.
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1 OdpowiedźHere's My Two Cents: In Short, I Agree. In Slightly Less Short, I Feel That They Where Trying To Appeal To All Of Those People Saying That All Of The Story Has To Be In The Game And Force-fed To Us. So In The End It Becomes An Equation: Grimoire = More Lore, Harder To Get In Game = Easier To Get, Less Lore. Personally I'm With The Prior, But Ya Know, YouDoYouHaveAGoodTime.
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1 OdpowiedźAt the same time this is sorta the community's fault for not being clear about what the problem was. everyone was complaining about the cards and wanted in-game lore, bungie puts lore in-game but with out the cards. the community was never really specific when it came down to what they wanted lore wise.
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GRIMOIRE CARS NOT GRIMOIRE ITSELF.
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Lore is being moved into the game http://www.vg247.com/2017/05/22/destiny-2-scraps-grimoire-cards-we-want-to-put-the-lore-in-the-game-says-bungie/
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Hopefully the cool stories in the lore will be in-game.
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Edytowany przez użytkownika AlamoCity: 5/23/2017 12:57:51 PMGrimiore should have never been implemented to begin with or, at the very minimum, make it accessible in-game. I'm aware of the crunch time Bungie faced in 2013-2014, but grimiore is simply lazy game design. Effective storytelling occurs in-game, not on some cards that are only accessible outside the game. This is a wise move on Bungie's part for D2.
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1 OdpowiedźEdytowany przez użytkownika Darth Lunchbox: 5/23/2017 2:08:03 PMDisagree, put the lore in game. Most people have no idea why we do anything in game cause most people have never read the grimoire. That's why everyone screams Destiny has no story, cause it doesn't in game. There is a screenshot somewhere, I don't remember where I saw it, showing that there is an in game grimoire in D2, so there will be grimoire, just not outside of the game. And who knows, could be just as detailed as the cards we have now.
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Lol it's all in the game now your just angry cause they cut your YouTube income. Git gud
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Destiny 2 is not destiny im really disappointed
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Read maybe two grim cards max. #1 is there shit to shoot? #2 is the gun play fun and diverse? Do I need a f'ing card to do one or two?
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So some lore psycho is mad because bungie wants to remove the only location of a story for the first game that was used in an extremely lazy and stupid manner? Wow
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1 OdpowiedźEdytowany przez użytkownika TheKeyToFear: 5/24/2017 12:50:44 AMI disagree. Lore should be in game in dialogue or cinematics. Not something I'd have to do outside of the game on my phone or whatever. I shouldn't doubt what I'm getting in the game as bias as long as the story is presented well from both sides. If there are two sides that need to be presented. If ghost scans brought up info to read that was small and to the point I'd be ok with that. But I'm glad grimoire cards will be left in D1.
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3 OdpowiedziEdytowany przez użytkownika PapaSubpar: 5/24/2017 3:37:42 AMGrimoire only existed to supplement the story that was dropped from the game. It was a bad move on Bungie's part and was widely lampooned by most people. The only people upset by this change are the "lore nerds" that built their whole online identity around trying to piece together the fragmented notes that are the grimoire cards to try and form a cohesive narrative out of them just so that they could make streams and youtube vids about it. But story belongs in the game. Not on the back of digital trading cards that 90% of the community is completely unaware of. The story is not going anywhere. It will just be in the game now, where it belongs.
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1 OdpowiedźI have no idea what the nuts grimoire does and or why everyone loves it so educate my newbie self🤤🤤
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2 OdpowiedziWhat I really like about the grimiore is that I can read it at work on my free time, and not be like, hey my friends, let's pause this strike for a moment so I can read this lore before we continue on. I know a lot of people didn't like the grimiore thing, but for those of us that really get into this stuff, it was really nice. It's awesome they are putting it in the game, but I liked the accessibility when out and about. So hopefully they keep it accessible outside of the game yet , I would be ok with that.
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I don't see how having both is such an issue with some. You have the in-game/stories for lore and you have the grimoire to flesh out lore stories in details not available in said story.
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Edytowany przez użytkownika Dog_Of_War_1138: 5/24/2017 2:06:51 AM[quote]The lack of an omniscient point of view removes the crystal clear understanding of the lore. With Ghost scans or NPC dialogue, Bungie, whether they know it or not, has instead given us fallible narrators. Now, we can't ever be certain of what we're told is correct because the narrator may have some sort of bias, or might not know all of the information.[/quote]This is the state of the current lore as well, though. There's no "omniscient narrator", the vast majority of grimoire is first-person stories, quotes, or else conversations. A large part is misleading if not downright apocryphal. Were there a single, omniscient, reliable narrator, we wouldn't need long threads debating "the true meaning of the lore", such as whether Rasputin attacked the Traveler, what the Deep is, the nature of Light, and so on. We could just read it and have our questions answered.
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5 Odpowiedzi"we won't lore in the game!" Adds lore to game "We want grimoire back!" Y'all wild lmao
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13 OdpowiedziLore in the game ---> not happy Lore outside the game ---> not happy Destiny community.
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It's not game changing in any way. You just needed to cry about something.
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Girmoire existed because of lack of story I'm sure they won't make the same mistake again.