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Edytowany przez użytkownika The Muzzy98: 5/24/2017 3:43:45 PM
236

Removing the Grimoire in Destiny 2 is a mistake

First and foremost, I just want to say that these are my thoughts on Bungie's approach to the lore in D2 more than a discussion of actual lore. If you'd like to read actual lore stuff by me, you can check out my [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/226603797?sort=0&page=0]Muzzy Archive[/url]. Hey everyone, Muzzy here. I'd like to give my thoughts on the matter of Bungie making the decision not to continue the Grimoire for Destiny 2. I love Destiny and I love the lore. It's the primary reason why I've stuck with this franchise. It's the thing that cemented my loyalty to this game was the day that I discovered the Grimoire and began reading about all the cool backstories and making the connections between different places, characters, and missions. The Grimoire was the reason that I truly was able to connect with the community, the reason that I found my clan, The Ashen Conflux. I feel that by removing the Grimoire, Bungie has taken away the chance for another Muzzy to pop up. Don't get me wrong, I'm elated that Bungie is taking the extra step and adding the lore into the game, but I feel that removing the auxiliary deep lore is also a step back. Gone are the deep epic stories telling of the legendary Guardians performing extraordinary feats and the tales of a tyrant rising to power. Instead, we get spoon-fed information via Ghost scans and dialogue. While this is nice, it isn't enough on it's own. What if we aren't able to find all of the pieces? Then we wot be able to put the story together correctly. A Grimoire card had everything you needed right there. The lack of an omniscient point of view removes the crystal clear understanding of the lore. With Ghost scans or NPC dialogue, Bungie, whether they know it or not, has instead given us fallible narrators. Now, we can't ever be certain of what we're told is correct because the narrator may have some sort of bias, or might not know all of the information. And lastly, as someone who writes lore posts, I feel that this change makes it incredibly difficult for me and other lore enthusiasts to put together the pieces. When the article that there would be no Grimoire in Destiny 2 came out, my clan had the collective thought of "Is this the end of the lore? Are we done?" What Bungie is doing with the story-telling is a good thing, but I think that the Grimoire may be necessary to bridge gaps between all the little breadcrumbs of lore out there. Anyways, this is just my little rant about my feelings of the removal of Grimoire in Destiny 2. I could be completely wrong about all of this; this may be the best thing Bungie could have done. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but have a new level of apprehension about the story of the game leading up to its release. If you haven't already, please watch the video I've linked above. Mynameisbyf did a much better job expanding and summarizing exactly what I was thinking, but I still needed to write this out for myself. I'll continue to write lore posts for you guys after Destiny 2 releases, but they may be less frequent depending on how this all plays out. Let me know your thoughts on this in the comments. [b]EDIT: [/b]You guys seem to be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. This isn't about an in-game Grimoire codex or anything. They aren't going to be writing Grimoire cards at all for Destiny 2, and I think that's a mistake. [b]EDIT 2:[/b] I'm [i]not[/i] saying lore shouldn't exist in game. I'm saying that Destiny's lore is way too vast and complex that without a codex, in-game books, or the grimoire system there is no way we get half the lore we did in D1 without hours upon hours of exposition.
English
#Destiny #lore

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  • I couldn’t agree more. At least in game books would’ve been fine. The grimoire did help me a lot because I personally like finding collectibles or anything that makes me feel like my time searching every corner of a map isn’t just a waste. Please keep updating!

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  • There are scannables in addition to adventures containing lore. Check it out for yourself, just look it up on the internet and you will find it.

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  • Edytowany przez użytkownika NastyNati0527: 5/31/2017 2:48:39 PM
    I wish they would keep the enemy grimoire cards at least. Glad more story will be in game this time, but* they could of had a mix of the two.

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  • Im gonna save everybody here some time. TL:DR MAH MONEY!!!!!!

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    1 Odpowiedź
    • Put it ingame, in a codex found on a HUB terminal or pause menu. Not exclusively on a website.

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    • I agree i love reading the deep lore but im hoping we'll have an in game feature we can look at similar to how final fantasy works

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      2 Odpowiedzi
      • I never read any grimoire anyway 👍🏻

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        1 Odpowiedź
        • I posted this in another thread. I felt like it applies here. [quote]Because Bungie doesn't pay attention at all. They heard people complain about the grimoire and failed to dig any deeper. They don't realize that the grimoire in and of itself isn't the problem. It's that they placed the majority of the story into the grimoire instead of making it supplemental and instead of having it on the menu screen for you to access (or at a kiosk or whatever), you have to go completely outside of the game. THOSE are the true issues, but as with nerfing Bungie sees a complaint and -blam!-s the whole game without any in depth investigation.[/quote] Although someone was saying they're adding a codex in game so they're just really getting rid of the grimoire format, not the lore itself. If that's the case I think we'll be ok, but I haven't gotten confirmation on it yet.

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        • Grimoire is like having a really great collection of sci-fi vignettes always on hand. Visuals and cutscenes are great and all, but they are an interpretation of something. You're getting an artists (or group of artists) rendition. The written word, however, truly are ignites the imagination. Some things are better left to the mind, IMHO. I applaud bringing the lore into the game, but I will indeed miss the written word. I do hope we get something similar [i]eventually[/i]. 🤞🤞🤞

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          4 Odpowiedzi
          • Okay Muzzy let me break it to you. The only reason LoreTubers are pissed about the no grimoire in destiny 2 is they can't exploit it for more money. I watched this video I know Byf said he doesn't give a damn he can't make lore videos anymore, but let's be honest. He's a YouTuber losing a source of content that he gets paid a very nice sum of money for. He's pissed about that fact alone and let's say he's being genuine and that's giving the benefit of the doubt a large amount of it at all. Who's to say there won't be a very large amount of in game lore? I'm not trying to he cynical with this comment, but it's true. Ever played a game like the dark souls series where the lore is all over the place in the game? Even with the large amount of players the lore is still only figured out by a small number of people and it is very much in what he calls "University level lore" to address his concerns. You can find this lore in the description for items, spells, weapons, boss souls, armor, etc? How do we know bungie won't put more lore in the game and make it one of those situations? I just think he's another YouTuber and person who is completely over blowing a situation from what we've seen from 1 stream and 1 announcement from bungie. Those are just my thoughts though and we're all entitled to our own views and opinions.

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            2 Odpowiedzi
            • A) We don't want another muzzy B) You don't get all the grimoire unless you visit every place, find every ghost, Siva fragment, etc. so it changes none to have to find everything to get the in game more C) Be butthurt

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              • I don't get why people are like "bungie don't care about x part of community" because they do, chances are they will have cards for destiny one stuff and they have added lore stuff to each item, the lore tubers will find stuff to make videos on, the mysteries and thoughts about who a person could be or new lore or why a lost sector boss ended up where it is. still i wish the lore youtubers would stop complaining about how theres no advanced lore when there will be.

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              • Agreed I like reading the grimore and I know I'm not the only one who gets in competitions with friends on who can get theirs the highest, but I think they should keep grimore and add the in game lore as well so you have your in game lore to learn from as well as more in depth looks through grimore.

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              • No it's not. Plain and simple it should never be out of the game.

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              • Edytowany przez użytkownika Zeal_Is_Magic77: 5/25/2017 12:12:48 AM
                Stop, STOP. The problem in the beginning was that it had to be read online, and even then most of it didn't relate to any of our own experiences within the game, just the weapon cards and character cards. You can't honestly cry about something that has been collecting dust on almost everyone's copy of the game, and no matter how bungie does it, if they state that the lore will be included in the game, HALLELUJAH!!! NOW you have a player base more inclined and more capable of learning about the world they're playing in. No one besides the hardcore divers were dreamy eyed about the Grimoire until the confirmation of its exclusion. And while you may think "oh they may not include so much detail in the game as the grimoire did", remember that we are in the same universe with the same principles. What we will most likely get is straight answers to old lore and new info to build on the world further. That's what makes D2 exciting; it's a whole new game and they will be putting that much more on the table, I'm sure. Unless of course it ends in a flop, which no one will care about any of this, us included.

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              • I'm still hoping the Grimoire will be in a library in the game, or at least have books laying around like in Skyrim. I enjoy learning extra things about the game universe, but only while I'm playing.

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              • I would have prefered both.

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              • Funny how people complained about the grimoire cards from the beginning and now they are actually removing it and now you complain they're taking it away??! What the actual fcuk is wrong with you people??!!

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                4 Odpowiedzi
                • I know destiny is not the elder scrolls games. That being said, I think destiny could learn something from skyrim as to how to satisfy all parties in this conversation. In game books. Or in destiny's case, in game grimoire cards that you can find in the open world or get from finding items like calcified fragments in taken king. You can still have a great in game story, but have the grimoire stories there for those of us who want to have more cool things to learn about the world of destiny.

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                • I agree. I liked being able to read the lore when I'm out and about and be able to re-read a card or two. Now if I want the lore I have to be in game.

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                • https://i.imgur.com/XUd3Co2_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high lore tab in game

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                  4 Odpowiedzi
                  • Grimoire was worthless.

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                    1 Odpowiedź
                    • Using my phone or tablet or any other device besides my console to find out facts about a game im playing on said console is just....dumb. P.s. same goes for raiding and trials. Why in the unholy -blam!- should i use a 3rd party site to find people to play with when it should be in game. Glad for the changes!

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                    • Edytowany przez użytkownika Volactic Milk: 5/23/2017 11:39:12 PM
                      Removing the grimoire is the best thing ever. I don't care about the stupid number next to my name, I don't care about folk tales about a bunch of characters not even mentioned in the game. I don't care about a bunch of dead Iron Lords that got a bland DLC spotlight that only really featured Saladin and the other Iron Lord that died in the first cutscene. Honestly, if you think the lore won't be brought over to some other third party sight so you can copy and paste the text for your script for your youtube video or read it away from home... Than you are dumb. I'm sorry that the lore will be in game and that the story may actually be good without pointless camp fire stories and cards about Oryx being a transgender. Looks like you'll be having to get a new job, no more grimoire videos for you bud. QUICK EDIT: (I'm going to add more to my response) Reading your post, you are merely troubled because you don't get the deeper stories of the characters not even in the game? Who the hell cares. What if the quest lines tell us all those stories of the people of the past? Don't you remember there are lost sectors and side quests now throughout the patrolling zones? Ever though that we would learn the stories of those characters we meet in game? I mean, the sniper guy at EDZ looks very interesting and I'm sure we will hear a story very similar to the stories in the grimoire, but this time it is actually in game. I respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree that Grimoire needs to be a thing; I'd rather have the game give me a story over going out of my way to find a story. You ever know why movies are so much better than prequels? Alien for example (Before Prometheus and Covenant) had many mysteries that kept the imagination going wild while still creating a masterpiece movie without being spoon fed the information. Now we can use our imaginations with the story that Destiny 2 gives us (Hopefully triple than in game Destiny 1 gave us) and then we can theorize and piece together the rest without pointless grimoire.

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                      50 Odpowiedzi
                      • You idiots think they'll remove all back story? You must be kidding mate. And I would rather it being told through cutscenes, dialogue and item description any day, but I guess it's bad for the you tubers because they won't be able to read out the same boring crap and come up with wild crazy theories

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                      • The flashcards were a mistake to begin with, especially with the requirement to leave the game world and log onto a supporting website to get any real mention of backstory critical to giving you story and character motivation as well as establishment of the conceptual "rules" and limitations that exist in the destiny universe. This is completely unnecessary when other games have similar or better organized, more in depth codex and archive systems in-game, allowing information that exists outside of the game to give greater detail to topics covered or mentioned in-game and expanding the universe with stories and information that does not directly impact the events carried out by the characters in the game. There can still easily be backstory and lore information found in game without use of a codex system, as many games have for years. Recordings, logs, journal entires, flyers, posters, objects of interest, damaged landscapes, long abandoned battlefields, or even dialog through conversation with npc's are just a few ways to find the backstory needed to drive the existing narrative as well as providing lore for those who wish to look deeper into the universe. If you claim to enjoy interpreting the destiny cards and piecing them together to create a Web of lore, why would turn down the chance to venture out into the world you love to collect and interpret lore rather then it being handed to you in the form of a card? And for those that like to theorize about lore, those previously mentioned methods of in-game lore collection provide greater opportunities to do so than the flashcards ever could. Surveing the physical locations of the game, the aftermath of battles fought long ago, the perversions of pre-collapse landscapes by the invasive additions of alien technically provide the chance to compare the information you collect from observation to logs you find from those who had been there before and the spoken stories of npc's. You can look into just how much these sources line up with your assessments, seeing if there was something missed by either side. From there you can look into why this information was lost or left out. Was it forgotten, misinterpreted, possibly overlooked or even flat out hidden for one reason or another? Test your skill to see how much you can really piece together the full backstory based on work that requires more teamwork, dedication, observation, coordination, and communication than a pre-numbered card granted by scanning one of many identical rocks or ghost shells ever could.

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