It's not an overpowered archetype though... it's time to kill isn't op... it's just a very effective weapon at close and/or medium range so it's archetype is used a lot... the archetype can still get out gunned by mida, last word, hawksaw, doctrine, and palindrome types so I don't know why it needs to be reigned in just because the archetype is popular. Just buff other gun types... the time to kill for grasp and clever dragon is perfect where it's at in my opinion(still leaves a little time for you to escape it but kills pretty fast if you get the drop on a guy and get all crits)

You just listed another batch of problem guns. That isn't a solution, it's actively contributing to a disease.

Hahaha okay so I can list 10 plus guns that people use regularly and effectively and those guns are the problems? Mida Eyasluna Palindrome Last word The waltz Grasp Clever dragon Distant star Blind perdition Hawksaw PDX 45 Maybe instead of destroying good things, why not think about making bad things better??? The guns listed above aren't the problem... it's the other archetypes of autos and pulses that are the problem (they need buffs)

A medium time to kill would be best. Not a fast one, not a long one. Consider these very valid guns: First Curse Red Death Hopscotch Pilgrim Suros PDX-41 The Satierrine Rapier Badger CCL Suros ARI-41 The Continental Suros ARI-45 Omolon Kumokatok HC4 Omolon Tuonela SR4 Omolon Cocytus SR4 Apple of Discord Hakke Judith-D Hakke Lyudmila-D Hakke Zarinea-D Not Like the Others Lethe Noblesse Stolen Pride Hand of Judgement Does Not Bow I can go on. There are a ton more. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it's good.

[quote]A medium time to kill would be best. Not a fast one, not a long one. Consider these very valid guns: First Curse Red Death Hopscotch Pilgrim Suros PDX-41 The Satierrine Rapier Badger CCL Suros ARI-41 The Continental Suros ARI-45 Omolon Kumokatok HC4 Omolon Tuonela SR4 Omolon Cocytus SR4 Apple of Discord Hakke Judith-D Hakke Lyudmila-D Hakke Zarinea-D Not Like the Others Lethe Noblesse Stolen Pride Hand of Judgement Does Not Bow [quote] I would just make the argument that all the guns listed above have "long" times to kill and the precedent "try hard" weapons I listed, have medium times to kill... I have been able to escape Midas,grasps, and hawksaws, who all had the jump on me... so they are fine. The fat ttk weapons are shot guns and snipers and fusions (all one shot) so I don't think you can say the ones I listed are "fast time to kill" weapons Hand of judgment/cocytus/badger ccl can all 3 tap you from across the map (that's a pretty dang good time to kill) but I think they should be one head shot two body shot kills, instead of 3 head shot kills The medium scouts need a buff in my opinion... it should be two head shots and two bodies and not 4 head shots to kill All autos still need buffs (except maybe the fastest rate of fires) But that's just my opinion.

We are talking about primaries. The scout rifles with three shot headshots are fine. Their low rate of fire allows for long range effectiveness and reduced close range effectiveness, hence why the body shot damage should not be changed. The weapons I listed are all decent times to kill. They are not asshole meta weapons, yet are plenty effective. But of course, most people will just use what's imbalanced and most effective, not what is actually best for the game overall. A game is supposed to be fun. A bullshit Grasp or what have you does not make it fun. I have asked a lot of people.

Yeah, I just personally feel the time to kill for the over used primaries right now are in a good place (minus the last word which is still pretty op when a guy lands all crits). To each their own though.