Let’s talk about Trials.
Now after looking over the forums there seems to be a lot of salt in regards to ToO, and how it’s handled. Some people are suggesting "Playlist Lock Outs", you run you’re 3 games that week and your done. This of course of absurd, people paid for the game, they should be able to play it with their friends. Streams seem to gain popularity by carrying viewers, and people just like elimination. Other still have suggested once you, run flawless you are relegated to a Flawless only playlist, but this, again does not fix the underlining issue with ToO.
Many of you would be surprised to know the apparent algorithm according to Bungie for ToO is not based off your skill as a player or even your aggregate skill as a team. It’s not SBMM, or even connection. A couple of games in ToO make this apparent, lag, cheating, and very one sided matches seem to run rampant one moment you’ll 5-0 a team that you had no right playing against, and the next you’ll get 5-0ed against a team that had no right playing against you. The algorithm is based off you’re your ToO card Win’s. This is RNG in a playlist that should be about skill, not RNG.
This is ludicrous, for a vast number of reason, including but not limited to; people who have already been flawless playing again, against weaker opponents. Players who wish to boost their Trials Win stats so they play the first 5 games on a card, scrap it get another and play again. And one sided matches. The list really does go on and on and on.
The simple solution, a rank the Trials Play List.
I’m going to give a dumbed down overview of how this should work.
Your ranking is 1-50. This is displayed on your Emblem next to your light and level, if you’re rank 25 for example, the game does everything in its power to find other 25’s. If it cannot find other 25’s then it slowly opens the skill gap in both directions. So 24-26, then if it till has trouble, it keeps moving it till it’s able to find a proper match, connection of course being a high priority. For anyone keeping track this is how bungie handled Halo 3’s ranking.
The only problem, I see with matching people based on a ranking system, is the top 1% of players will play one another, opening up the lighthouse for more of the community. Which when you think about it isn't really a problem.
EDIT: It should be noted that the point of showing Rank in ToO, is less to denote elitism which, yes it will create, and more to hold bungie to account, with a number we can see at a glance how well the system is working, and hold them to account if it doe not work. Will there be exploration? Like there was in Halo 3, yes but under Bungies guidelines that is cheating, and should be handled accordingly.
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A true ranked playlist (especially in Bungie's world) wouldn't prove shit about skill since the connections would be piss awful. But Trials should be SBMM
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7 OdpowiedziI don't like this for two big reasons: 1. Since you are forming your own 3 person team as opposed to matchmaking, do you base the true skill of your opponents on the the true skill of the highest player in your fireteam, the lowest player, or an average of all 3? All of these methods would have flaws. Going by the lowest would inevitably result in two top tier players playing with the worst player they can find to get easy matches. Going by the highest would discourage people (like myself) from playing with friends and siblings that are lower skill than them. I typically play with my brothers, and they aren't as good as I am, so if we matchmade based on my skill level then we would end up getting owned most of the time. If I wanted to go flawless I would have to LFG for people of my skill level to have any chance of going flawless. Going by an average would likely result in high skill people doing double carries with the worst players they can find, lowering their fireteam's average skill level and likely matching them against teams of 3 that the high skill player should be able to 3v1. 2. Would rewards for going flawless be better if your true skill level was higher? If rewards don't end up scaling to higher gear based on your true skill level, then there's no incentive to play well all the time. The optimal strategy to going flawless would be purposely losing a lot of matches in a row to lower your true skill, and then trying your best for 7 matches in a row against lower tier players to get the flawless rewards. If rewards DID end up scaling to higher gear based on your true skill level...personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But lower tier players and casuals would all complain that Bungie was locking them from content/gear since they're not "one of the best". People already complain about the lighthouse being a thing. It would get much worse if there was exclusive gear only available above a certain true skill threshold. And if the gear was the same but just higher light, then that wouldn't fall in line with Bungie's progressive leveling system and that would result in tons of complaints too. The current system isn't perfect, but the system you recommend would be a step in the wrong direction. Those are my two cents.
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Oh my days. Okay, so your suggestion is good. You have an argument that you have made and a solution. But it is the wrong solution for the wrong problem. Trials is not about matching skilled players. I used this metaphor once: imagine in ancient Rome, if they had a gladiator tournament, open to anybody who wanted to join. No entry requirements. What would happen? Everyone who thinks he is worth a shot or imagines any significance to his name woulf enter. The weaker challengers would be crushed, and the strong will be left alive. This is exactly what Trials has always been, what it was apparently also designed to be like, and the reason it has not changed since. Is it fair? No. Is it supposed to be fair? No. Should there be another playlist based on what you suggest? Absolutely. In fact I have also suggested this very idea myself before. But it needs to be a completely separate competition, not a remake of Trials.
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3 OdpowiedziTheWikkedJoker needs a carry, & if he can't get a streamer to do it, he'll beg Bungie for one.
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However, since there as so few in the top 1%, you would probably be playing against the same people like every other match. The skill rating thing sounds like a good idea, but it might turn off the best players because it would be so repetitive (playing against the same people).
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The only way to ensure competition is intense acceoss the entire range of skill is to implement a SBMM. If you match two teams who who have individual KDs at 3.0, the match will be pretty intense. The same can be said of two teams of players who have individual KDs of 0.5, so long as their skill is taken into account to find their opponents. SBMM helps ensure that every match that is played is competitive, that every team is matched against worthy opponents regardless of their position on the scorecard.
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I think I'll just lag switch to a flawless completion like everyone else and laugh while Bungie does nothing about it.
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Edytowany przez użytkownika Sideswipe: 10/3/2016 6:24:35 PMYou're not going to get anywhere with the tryhards here on this forum. They're egos are too invested in the current system for them to even consider a change. Despite the [b][i]FACT[/i][/b] that competitive sports and even recreational leagues have had tiers for ages - high school -> college -> pros (even divisions within those categories), video game PvP wants to cling to this notion that it should always be pros vs joes. Their ideals are contradictory by nature, but good luck getting them acknowledge that, because to do so would threaten their chances at the continued success they're used to.
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We need to implement this system into the AFC East pronto. No way should my Dolphins be in the same league as the %@*$ing Patriots. On topic: I don't believe this should be implemented. I've never made the light house before anyone asks. Check my stats. I was curbside stomped in my first and only playthrough.
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1 OdpowiedźI miss Halo 3 ranking system
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I've been advocating this for too damn long now. I'm glad to know there are more people with common sense out there
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Lag2win Sbmm is grape and all. But y1 trials was better then the shit fest in y2 and more then likely y3.
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Just make ToO skill based. Therefore everyone has a fair chance to get matched up with similar opponents. The system they have now doesn't determine skill.
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1 OdpowiedźThat would not denote skill. Going flawless would depend on whether you were on better form than your similarly skilled opponents, and not whether you were a good player. Those who were good at pvp but starting a new account would pubstomp. Those who were average would still be average. Those who were good would suffer greatly, and their skill would be a disadvantage as it would cause their games to be incredibly sweaty 98% of the time.
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ToO to me is not competitive. Most of the time it's very slow and campy and I just can't take it serious. I believe there should be a separate playlist for rankings. Ranked 4v4 or 2v2 playlist or even ffa playlist that's not based on elimination. There's a reason why sweats weren't elimination based. But I'm assuming sometime in destiny 2 they will have the ranked games. Just like how it took forever to get private matches. Lol
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I agree that Trials can be frustrating. I have been flawless 41 times now and I've had many losses. Many wins. And some in between. I've 5-0'd very skilled streamers and I've been shit on by them as well. Obviously it's a team effort. I disagree with ranked trials on a skill level. Just keep playing. Get better. Get wins. You're going to get shut down. It's going to happen. And when your team shuts down another, they feel the same way. It's suppose to be challenging. Also, people might want to consider making new friends to play trials with if their current team just isn't working out.
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people would just reverse boost to 1 and walk towards the lighthouse
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9 OdpowiedziAre you proposing they average the true skill of all 3 players on a team or base it on highest or lowest?
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Who really cares. I have not lost a trials match in year 2 or year 3. Putting trials in this game has caused all the nerfs that ruined Destiny for 99 pct of the people.
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But there is no true skill in destiny. Everythings easy mode in this game. Designed for the casuals, ruined by the tryhards and butthurt.
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This happened to my team I was running with on Friday. On our lighthouse game, we found a really stacked sweaty team that 5-0'd us. The next game we did, we 5-1'd a team and got to go to the lighthouse. It is odd how the matching system works. I think I like the way it used to work in year 1 better than this, honestly.
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2 OdpowiedziThe system should be changed to make it less asshat inducing. My first 5 cards this weekend I got twitch bombed 2x per card as did my team mates. I spent 3 hours deleting messages from people desperate to go flawless. It will die down I'm sure but I've never actually seen so much cheating lol. The biggest flaw in destiny pvp is the simple fact you report someone for cheating and nothing happens. In reality people do not get banned, there is no punishment for bombing other players, intentionally lagging, and booting opposing players. Locking arguably the best pvp weapons behind a 9-0 card that requires you to out play cheaters in 3+ matches is comical. If they aren't going to change the current system they have to actually start implementing trials bans for anyone cheating. Until that happens trials flawless means nothing. If you cheat - you should be banned from pvp permanently.
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Edytowany przez użytkownika PapaSohan: 10/3/2016 5:16:05 PMThe stupidest decision Bungie ever made on this game was to base the matchmaking on the number of wins on your card. My buddies and I were regularly going to the lighthouse at least once per week and sometimes 3 depending on the map. Since the scorecard change was implemented we have struggled to get through once per week and prior to RoI actually quit altogether. Once you get to 7, 8, and 9 wins the games are massively competitive - way too competitive. And if you lose more than once you have to start over completely. This issue is compounded because less skilled players do not even bother because they know they probably won't get through because they can't even get lucky and face worse teams all the way through. Bungie came right out and said that they intended for ~12.5% of the players to go to the lighthouse instead of the ~20% of players who were going before the scorecard change. Bungie, that is -blam!-ing stupid. Why burden your players that much? You just screwed 7.5% of your player base and made it a lot more stressful on the other 12.5%. There was no need for that. Trials was much more fun when the matchmaking had nothing to do with the number of wins on the card. Bungie is catering to the elite 1% of the pvp playerbase to make them feel like extra special snowflakes because they have the loudest mouths and stream on Twitch.
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Trials, the only mode that should have sbmm but doesn't
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Edytowany przez użytkownika sergeantsnipes05: 10/3/2016 5:17:02 PMI think ToO matchmaking is fine although I think it should go back to pure connection like it was in year 1. This game doesn't have the netcode or server infrastructure to support heavy skill search settings. Also there is Farrrrrrrrrrrr less cheating than you all think. Considering how many people play this game it's basically none.