[b]Edit: Before you read, some are concerned I'm claiming snipers are OP and need nerfing etc. and reply as if I'm oblivious to the fact it's the same as Y1. I was one of those Y1 snipers, that's all I used. I'm pretty good at it not to toot any horns. I've played the game enough to have a say on what's not so balanced - I'm approaching 3 million medal score with a 2KD overall[/b]
So... Following last weekend's Trials of Osiris map, The Anomaly.
I have finally opened my eyes to the situation. Sniper rifles are as common as Y1 shotguns now.
This is coming from the guy who wrote the 10,000 character essay (link below) on how aim assist works - for clarification I wrote that because many were using the term wrongly, using it as an excuse for sniper popularity, over-exaggerating what it does and so on.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/170566095/0/0
Aim assist is not the reason Sniper Rifles are over used. Why were Y1 shotguns so popular (post-buff)? Because the range was ridiculous and it was a 1 shot kill.
A 1 shot kill in a game like Destiny where gun fights are significantly prolonged compared to the likes of other FPS, Call of Duty for example, is a huge cut down on TTK (time to kill).
If a sniper can land that 1 shot headshot (or at the time of writing this, get the LiTC round), it'll beat any primary weapon or heavy weapon hands down, almost every weapon besides a shotgun within their respective range.
I've just played a number of Skirmish games, and the entire 3 man team (all random players may I add) were sniping, non stop, left right and centre. I'm not complaining that they're too easy to use (because I love sniper rifles and have been sniping since TDB when I got the game), but because they're too effective to use. It was that bad, one guy even managed to no scope me point blank and finish me off with a melee - the equivalent of a shotgun melee in Y1. It's not that I'm a bad player like a lot of complaints on here arise from because I'm far from it. I certainly wasn't playing my best but it's the principle of it is what matters.
My simple solution - nerf special ammo crates. Add another minute or two onto the timers, place them in spots in which teams doing well will be rewarded for doing so (such as one slap in the middle of the map to fight towards). The spawns of these crates currently are commonly in enclosed locations, and pose no risk of grabbing. ([b]Edit: moving crates maybe not such a good idea but reducing ammo more so)[/b]
The ammo given should be reduced, currently it's the traditional 4 bullets and 6 if you have the extra sniper rifle ammo perk on any piece of armour. I think this should be cut down to 2, and 3 being granted with the sniper ammo perk.
The reason I have brought this to attention finally, is because I just checked the statistics for the weapons used on The Anomaly (a dominantly CQ map with few long range lanes), and snipers were more used than shotguns, [b][u]on The Anomaly[/u][/b]. This can be checked yourself on the home page of destinytrialsreport.com
What are your thoughts guys? I really think this is one of the final steps towards the balance we've been looking for since the beginning. All in all, 2.0 was a huge stride towards this goal and 2.0.1 is only edging us closer to where the game needs to be.
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#Destiny
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5 OdpowiedziSnipers never changed since Y1, they just nerfed shotguns too much so snipers are better my comparison. They should just make shotguns slightly more reliable and go through with the fusion rifle buff and we'll be good. However Bungie seems incapable of balancing their game as they always go overboard when it comes to buffs and nerfs.
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10 OdpowiedziYou get one round per sniper ammo perk. Run only one piece, you pick up five if your normal is four, and six if you have two pieces. Personally i basically main a sniper rifle. That's not to say I'm camping with it, cause I tend not to. I'm also the guy who loves double down. Sniper rifles make the game fun for me. I get that it can be annoying though, I just wouldn't play much if I couldn't use a sniper much. Which I don't want to do. So that's where I stand, I guess.
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3 OdpowiedziEdytowany przez użytkownika FlandreScarlette: 12/3/2015 9:43:27 PMI agree with the post. (Hey again). It's too common, too easy, and has little to no penalty because of abounding ammo crates. Promote primary use, please. I love sniping, I do, but damn, it is too easy, and infecting the overall mentality of the game. It's also annoying not being able to go around various corners on the map without instantly getting headshot, but as soon as I bring this up, people mention "sniping lanes". I know what sniping lanes are, people. But with a shortgaze scope, any spot on the map becomes a sniping lane xD They're far enough away to not be on my radar, have really low recoil, can still somewhat decently aim when under fire, have no sway, blah blah. It's a really easy sniping game. And I understand! This is a casual FPS. But lowering the sniper ammo drops (as well as crate spawn time) would alleviate some of what has become (and what will be) a rather stale PvP. Especially in Trials. I chuckle every time someone tells me that conserving ammo is difficult. Also, I spawn in with 12 bullets. That's enough to wipe the enemy team 4 times, haha. Absurd. Edit: Also, it's very annoying for snipers to still kill you when you're shooting them consistently. Add more flinch, perhaps?
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My one main concern about this change in weapon use is camping. More and more matches i go in to are filled with usually 3-4 people per team just sitting back and camping.
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7 OdpowiedziCRY ME A -blam!-ING RIVER Me and me spear with double down field scout and clown cartridge have and will always spawn with 23 sniper bullets in any pvp mode and I will always be able to switch to another special and keep the same percentage of special ammo on it SUCK A DICK ON THAT
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25 OdpowiedziEdytowany przez użytkownika JadenChrist: 12/3/2015 2:16:11 PMLet me fix that 1000 yard stare is Y1 shotguns
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3 OdpowiedziThey even function at the same range y1 shotguns did
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2 OdpowiedziEdytowany przez użytkownika Erijian: 12/3/2015 9:25:53 PMIMO they should readjust scope zooms; no reason to let Sniper Rifles have such low zoom/wide FoV scopes when their intended use is long-range.
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Edytowany przez użytkownika High Charity: 12/3/2015 10:26:32 PMWrong. The amount of ammo they give is fine, the issue is how often they spawn in. With that, you were spot on. I've been saying since the beta that Special Crates need to be on a 3 minute timer, and Heavy Crates on a 5 minute. The only person who gets the ammo should be the one who opened the crate as well. There's a reason the Sniper Rifle was so successful and had nine of this silly controversy in the Halo titles.
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Agreed i hope bungie will read this
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1 OdpowiedźI don't get it, it's a precision weapon why is it suddenly a problem. Snipers being more popular is just a result of weapon rebalancing
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Just extend the timer on special. You could also stagger the spawning of special crates on each map so that first special crates that spawn are middle of the map working back to bases.
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1 OdpowiedźEdytowany przez użytkownika Dredgen Von: 12/3/2015 2:33:19 PM
Dredgen VonDon't save her - stary
Snipers are only a problem when the entire team is camping with them [b]Solution[/b]: Spawn in with no special ammo it'll slow down the camping pace. Everyone will too engaged in the battle to camp the entire match. Special ammo will also work like heavy does once you lose it. You can't use it [spoiler]disable the infinite ammo perks on ice breaker and invective for crucible [/spoiler] -
1 OdpowiedźI have seen the proposition a few times now, and I really do agree. Limit the ammo further on Special in Crucible.
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1 OdpowiedźMy team got wrecked by snipers on anomaly.
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1 OdpowiedźI literally agree with so many of your opinions. It's crazy
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2 OdpowiedziAll shotguns r so bad now except for chaperone. Snipers I think will be kept the same for a while, until somebody complains for a nerf. I totally agree with how they r just so effective now, and hit scan system makes it easier for people, which leads me to believe that drag scoping is the most effective kind of sniping in this game. All that matters is the timing
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1 OdpowiedźEvade out of sniper lanes. ( blink, shadestep, titans can when the chest piece is out ) when I snipe I'll usually shadestep after a missed shot to avoid a death. As for ammo, it's fine it's just the people that complain usually can't counter it very well. Nothing against the OP. Special ammo has been nerfed previously and nothing needs to happen. Not related to OPs post, it seems like anyone who complains are year 2 kinderguardians who can't handle sniping. Anyone else feel that way. Hell most of the time I'm a poor shot and miss three shots that should have been easy. But if you're gonna bitch about one death to a sniper, then you to be sent back to the thorn/shotgun sniper era of year one. [spoiler] The last paragraph OP has nothing to do with you. It's not even what yours is about because you played year one. Thought I'd get that last paragraph out to make a point. [/spoiler]
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Edytowany przez użytkownika Cole: 12/3/2015 2:36:48 PMHere. Black hammer. Low aim assist (Sorry wrong thread I'm going between two if these kinds of threads lol)
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6 OdpowiedziThe aim assist on 1000ys is still too much though.
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3 OdpowiedziHonestly please dont reduce sniper ammo, I struggle enough finding enough of that, just reduce aim assist and make the base aim assist the same on all snipers
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The entire ammo setup needs to change. Special weapons need to be treated as the power weapons that they are. Regular pvp: no special on spawn. All special ammo drops happen at once and has a shaxx callout. You continue to retain special ammo on death. This makes things like map control and awareness more critical. Also, you know, primary weapons being used primarily. Also you can give sidearms that spawn with ammo perk and they'll be somewhat useful in the early game. It also makes the universal remote and no land beyond more appealing as you can now use them without feeling like "what's the point? Anyone could pull out a better sniper/shotgun and not waste their exotic spot" For trials you should spawn with the special ammo that you normally spawn with. That's it. (Disable invective and icebreakers perk, giving them a base amount of ammo/a full charge of icebreaker so they won't be abused) Having three snipers sitting shoulder to shoulder popping body shots and collecting special ammo at the end of every round shouldn't be how trials works. Keeping track of ammo and deciding when to use it should be part of the challenge. If a team only bum rushes or hides and snipes they may run out of special ammo and allow the enemy team to make a comeback.
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Preach!
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4 OdpowiedziSniping has been popular in PVP for years. There were people sniping during year 1, it's just they didn't get the same attention as the shotgun. Do you think terms like "quick scoping" were first used in Destiny? The shotgun in Destiny PVP is a joke. It's never been balanced for PVP. And because of the continual nerfing, it useless in PVE.
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5 OdpowiedziSince the shotguns have been nerfed and will continue to be nerfed, people are switching to snipers as their go to weapons are shit. Most Year 2 snipers main a single zone and do not push as much as Year 1 snipers did (courtesy of my observations on Xbox One) The abundance of Special ammo in PvP is also an issue. 5 months ago, I wouldn't agree with the "Save the primary" posts, but now that you can use any old pulse rather than 2 specific Handcannons to dominate, you don't need to use special ammo to shut those gun users down. I also don't think it was the best idea for Bungie to create a perfect PvP sniper with high AA as an easy quest reward as it results in every one using it.
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3 OdpowiedziYep, I see al these snipers vs shotgun arguments but I'm on the side of primary weapons. You should not spawn with special ammo and ammo dropped from crates should be reduced.