Read the whole thing. You bring up some good points, but also some really, really, REALLY bad ones too. Overall, I rate your argument 6/10

Bravo. Well said

I gave up after the thorn and TLW thing. Cheap ass weapons that are significantly better than any other option should never be accepted because they make you work to beat them. You should be beating people in crucible, not weapons.

[quote]@@@@@@ EDIT #2 @@@@@@@ I agree this is too long. I have a very severe learning disability that someone ALWAYS helps me with except when it's not work related. So I tried to correct this EXHAUSTING post with this one https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/174770102 so if you want to move the discussion there we can. I tried to summarize my 2 main points. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ******************************************************** EDIT - - - CLIFFS NOTES ***************************************** This post is long as it's full of MY OWN OBSERVATIONS and EXPERIENCES. Here is the short take. Bungie is nerfing weapons trying to SOLVE SYMPTOMS as if they were problems. The fact is GJALLARHORN, Black Hammer, Thorn and other weapons are exclusives. They don't make you better as a player they simply make playing more fun. Don't NERF our WEAPONS and GEAR to "balance" let us provide the balance. WE TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN. Yeah Last Word and Thorn TRASHED ME so I adapted and learned how to overcome those weapons. In short those two weapons made me better. Then I taught others how to overcome and WE GREW STRONG. GJALLARHORN did appear to be a NECESSARY raid inclusive BUT ONLY WITH BUTTHOLES. My friends, myself and others. WE DIDN'T CARE WHAT YOU HAD. You want to beat the hard raid? Come on let's go get it done. We did too. Week after week and it was a blast. WE HAD AMAZING WEAPONS, GEAR and Stories. Those of us that COULD were alway present and ever ready to HELP those that COULDN'T until THEY ROSE UP AND STOOD ON THEIR OWN. Don't NERF the stuff that makes this game challenging. Don't try to fix with STATS stuff that should be fixed with CHARACTER. Let us take care of our own. Give us OUR AWESOME WEAPONS BACK DAMN IT!!! *************************************************************************************************************************** After reading the latest weapon -blam!- by BUNGLIE (The L is on purpose.) it has hit me that Bungie is *SO* missing the obvious. It started way BACK WHEN they announced the NERF to Gjallarhorn and Blackhammer 2 weapons that made this game an elite experience and caused many the blind man to SEE CLEARLY when one or the other suddenly dropped in his/her inventory. Those 2 weapons defined what many of us now reflect on the BEST OF TIMES when this game was HARD and FUN. Many of us lamented the announced NERF's because of the affect to what up that point had been UNRIVALED weapons. I mean if you rocked the Fatebringer, Blackhammer and the capital G you effectively had ALL YOU NEEDED TO BE A FLAWLESS RAIDER. The only thing missing at that point was provided by your fingers and what's between your ears. Instead of Bungie approaching the PROBLEM they went after the symptom. I remember reading things like "We don't like seeing posts for Crota Hard must have Gjallarhorn" and "Players are grinding for Blackhammer as if it were an exotic and that shouldn't be." As I read the lame justifications and excuses I thought okay so what about all the "Must be level 32" then and so many other "Musts" we so often see. "Looking for trials team. Must have gone flawless and have emblem to prove it." The fact is Bungie looked at the behavior of the FEW elitist players ... an elitist bunch that WANT IT HOW WE WANT IT. Bungie observed these FEW posts that were from the same players day after day and week after week. What they missed was the SHEER volume of HUMBLE CRUSHERS who lurked in the tower and on the forums watching ... waiting ... always ready for that anonymous invite from a random saying, "We are doing the hard raid and really need help" and these humble crushers (yeah I do include myself) would drop everything to carry 5 other players through Crota or Vault spending hour upon hour resurrecting and teaching and making some average players into AWESOME SHERPAS. You don't see us making posts that say, "Doing {Some} activity must have {Some} item". It's just not how we roll. NOPE if we are fortunate enough to have such items WE USED THEM TO PICK UP THE SLACK FOR THOSE PLAYERS WHO DIDN'T and week after we week we SHERPA'd them until they were ready to take the torch from us AND START THEIR OWN HUMBLE CRUSHING. My point in all of this is I AM SO SICK OF HEARING "Destiny players we heard you and {insert pending nerf}" every single time I say "They heard me? What did they hear? Then I read the update and discover the nonsense and I am shocked. WHO THE HELL ARE THEY LISTENING TO? Not me or any of the HUMBLE GIANTS I rock with. If we have something AWESOME be it a weapon or skills we USE THAT TALENT to compensate for those players STILL GROWING/EARNING those items/talents/skills. In the crucible we got our asses handed to us by Thorn, Last Word, Suros, Red Death and all we did was IMPROVE ourselves. The PROBLEMS in this game HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WEAPONS leave our GEAR ALONE. If you don't want Thorn to 2 shot someone then tell them to jump or dodge faster or to resurrect and GO KICK THAT GUYS @$$ FOR PAYBACK. 1. Real life WILL NOT CUT ANYONE ANY BREAKS. Why are YOU FOSTERING this idea that if it's TOO HARD I CAN BITCH and they'll make it easy for me? No real life ... it's going to DESTROY these winers. 2. Sometimes HORRIBLE things happen that nobody could prepare for (France as an example). It's life YOU GET SCREWED and people DIE. Resolve to make this world better with the time you have and LIVE EACH DAY TO IT'S FULLEST. 3. There is only one winner in real life and EVERYONE else GETS BETTER from losing and if they are TRULY EXCELLENT they will learn and overcome until it's their turn to win. THEY WILL REFUSE ANY BREAK OR SHORTCUT you offer them. 4. Not everybody has NICE STUFF. It's real life. If you want it then bust your @$$ and get it but DON'T LET {IT} DEFINE YOU. Instead let the experience of getting {IT} DEFINE you. BUNGIE I AM A PLAYER AND I FEEL LIKE I REPRESENT MANY WITH WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY. Let us take care of our own. Don't nerf stuff so that Johnny doesn't have to be JEALOUS of JIMMY who EARNED his THORN so he could tear Johnny a new ass with little or no real skill involved. Then let Johnny discover the thrill of becoming better and using his WORD OF CROTA or Payback SOS to give JIMMY A TOTAL beat down. You see ... Thorn won't make Jimmy a better player. But going up against Thorn will make any motivated human being A MUCH BETTER PLAYER. If someone gets kicked form Crota Hard because they don't have Gjallarhorn ... Yeah that SUCKS but that's life. Get over it and find people like me (we are out here) who can teach you how to do this stuff with what you have so that someday when that GOLDEN Wolf Bearing DESTROYER drops for you YOU WILL BE THE ONE USING the advantage it gives to help others. Bungie PEOPLE NEED TO LOSE SO THEY DISCOVER THEIR OWN GREATNESS. Stop NERFING human resiliance, determination, and PERSEVERANCE. If a weapon you gave us is TOO POWERFUL or becomes exclusive or whatever. LET US TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN. Those weapons WERE A BLAST AND MAKE THIS GAME ELECTRIC AND EXCITING. I mean the first time the undocumented PERK knowns as PROXIMITY blows your head off with GJALLARHORN is memorable, exciting and FRIGGIN HILARIOUS. You DENIED 100,000's of players that experience because NOW it's just not that great. MEH.... It's not EVEN worth grinding to get and XUR sold it again. I bet nobody would buy it. WHY? You "Fixed" a symptom and RUINED an AWESOME experience. EVERYONE who had the GJALLARHORN pre-nerf HAS ZERO trouble TELLING YOU IN EXQUISITE DETAIL WHAT/WHEN/HOW/WHERE they were and WHO they were with when their first GJALLARHORN dropped. IT *WAS* a defining moment in this game. Those of us that had experienced it LOVED sharing in the moment with those experiencing it for the first time with us. I CAN TELL YOU FOR A FACT THAT AWESOME MOMENT THAT CEMENTED SO MANY FRIENDS, FIRETEAMS and CLANS is gone FOREVER and Destiny suffered when you did what you did. PUT THE MAGIC BACK IN THE GAME. GIVE US OUR AWESOME GEAR WE LOVED SO MUCH BACK. Then trust US THE PLAYERS to help those still on the hunt (whether it's a weapon, the lighthouse, FLAWLESS Raider) to get THEIR MOMENT IN TIME. We will ... we just don' announce it. We finish the RAID and quietly go find NEW PEOPLE to help. Yes, some players will grind and never get. Sorry that's life. It's not always fair GET OVER IT. Some players like me will get 21 while their closest friends get ZERO week after week. I felt bad and it motivated me to SHOW UP AND HELP THEM WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT. When someone new became a member of our exclusive CLUB it was awesome then we sent them out to help others. DESTINY USE TO BE SO ELECTRIC Fatebringer, Black Hammer, Gjallarhorn WERE SUCH AWESOME weapons that we loved playing with them day in and day out and WE LOVED EVEN MORE WHEN ONE OF OUR NEW FRIENDS got one or both of them in a RAID we GUARANTEED would be finished BECAUSE THAT was the point. We didn't need loot. We didn't need anything. It wasn't about us. IT WAS ABOUT THEM AND IT FELT GOOD. Leave IT ALONE AND TRUST US TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCES THROUGH THE TRIUMPH OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT and if that fails and Jimmy KICKS YOUR @$$ with Thorn. Too bad. Somebody has to lose. GET OVER IT.[/quote]

I followed a bit, but could someone provide a tl;dr?

We apologize, the forest has been nerfed to make room for the new luxury condo's!!! These are being built with the proceeds from your generous purchases of silver. We hope to have them completed by December 2016, just in time for the release of Destiny2, and will be given as Christmas presents to all current Bungie employees. Have safe and wonderful holidays and remember, every purchase of silver you make helps support a poor, undernourished Bungie soul.

Do I read your essay-like, messy post, or just make a sarcy comment regardless? Hmm. Tough choice.

[quote]HARD and FUN[/quote] That's what she said.

Ah, so true.

Listen only to the sound of my voice Imagine yourself in a frozen forest

I really wish they took the same path as borderlands and just made a shot load of awesomely op weapons

Agree, besides... destiny managers (included comunity managers) are casuals, they have no clue what you talking about. Most 10+ year games are not balanced, cuz the human factor is not... trying to nerf weapons and cut content and items you eraned before is just lame.

2muchsalt4me

In a competitive game, there should never be a weapon that is better than every other weapon in the game. Yes, weapons should have situations where they excel and outshine others. But that should not be every, or even most situations. If I die, I should not be able to write it off as, he was using a better gun.