I'm not talking about farming activities. I'm talking about the cost to *focus* weapons. Yeah, at the present rates, farming nightfalls is the only remotely sane option. Focusing is completely insane! Yes, barrel DOES matter. My GF says so. For controller players, stability and recoil make a huge difference. And on bows, both the first two columns clearly matter. But OK, forget that and let's use your argument, masterwork and barrel don't matter. Even for a 3/5 roll, that's 144 combinations. At a cost of 5 engrams to focus, you can spend 720 engrams and, on average, end up with one 3/5. That's batsh-t crazy expensive! Are you saying the cost to focus is too low??? If so, you're nuts. Or are you saying don't focus (I agree, it's a ripoff) and look for an alternative. My point was simply that focusing is too expensive. Your argument is what's known as a non sequitur.

Hi! Yes, hello, it’s me, a Destiny player that’s used a controller since, well, the open beta of D1. Barrels don’t actually matter all that much in PvE because in most use cases, they won’t actually change the end result. You’re not duelling red bars, a bit more range and stability on a pulse rifle won’t make a lick of difference. Mags also just boil down to having more ammo, or which there are several perks. So most weapons, if used for PvE, only rely on the two actual perks on the weapon. Which often means nightfall weapons have only 36 combinations to worry about. And with adepts rolling with two in a column…. You get my point. Farming these guns is ridiculously easy when they’re in the rotation, especially if you’re after the adept. My point isn’t that focusing should cost more, it’s that focusing is just a way to dump engrams if you haven’t gotten what you wanted after a long grinding session. If you’re chasing out of rotation loot like Hothead, where mag does matter, there are other options in that slot that are acquired far easier. Focusing is and always has been an expensive waste of resources that should only be used as a last resort.

If the first two columns don't matter and the masterwork doesn't matter, maybe Bungie should just eliminate them all. Brilliant. No, not a big difference for pulses, but recoil and stability and range definitely matter for SMGs. Moreso for some players than others. I'm sure you're a superior player and surely a superior human being, but most of the little people beneath you do care about the first two columns and masterwork.

Considering I have arthritis in both my hands and still regularly manage to utilise both auto rifles and SMGs in PvE regardless of barrel, masterwork and mag I would say that no, they don’t. If we were talking PvP I would 110% agree with you, because at that point we’re talking fight another player with similar levels of lethality. Every advantage you can get counts in that situation. Acting like a small bit of extra stability matters when mowing down thrall is laughable.

So the first columns don't matter. Got it. So you think Bungie should just remove them since they're pointless? Oh, wait, you said it does matter in PVP. So you think people shouldn't be allowed to use vanguard weapons in PVP? And you think masterworks are pointless too? Should they be removed? Even if a player does not care what's in column 1 or 2, but does prefer a particular masterwork, that means most players will want at least 3 / 5. Is that unreasonable? 3/5 roll has only a 1 in 144 chance. At 5 engrams to focus just one weapon, you think that's a fair price for a 1 in 144 chance of getting a decent roll? OK, bro. SMH.

Again ignoring the fact that I’ve specifically pointed out that focusing is a last resort means of getting nightfall weapons and you should instead be farming the nightfall itself when it’s in rotation. Also saying that a perk makes no difference to PvE encounters doesn’t make them useless. But guess what? If you do care about that tiny little incremental boost, you’re in the minority of min/maxers. There are only three things that mags realistically matter on in terms of PvE, and I’m talking there’s one options you absolutely want on a godroll. Slug Shotguns with Assault Mag. Rocket Launchers with Impact Casing. Grenade Launchers with Spike Grenades. Anything else you can absolutely live without. If you care about anything more you’re likely a hardcore player who will easily farm the weapon out naturally if you don’t already have a crafted weapon in the same archetype with the same roll. Edit: [quote]3/5 roll has only a 1 in 144 chance. At 5 engrams to focus just one weapon, you think that's a fair price for a 1 in 144 chance of getting a decent roll? OK, bro. SMH.[/quote] Thought this was funny on a reread, so I’ll address it specifically. It’s not a 1 in 144 chance of a decent roll. It’s a 1 in 144 chance of an exact godroll you’re looking for. Loaded Question for example. Taking a normal roll (with no extra perk columns), for a PvE roll you want a combination of Auto Loading/Overflow/Envious and Controlled/Reservoir. That’s a 1/6 chance, excluding batteries, for a focused PvE roll. No wasted perk.

Dude, learn simple math. Assuming there are 6 possible perks in column 3, another 6 in column 4, and 8 possible perks in column 1 & 2 (but two options to select from for those columns), that is 6*6*(8/2)=144 combinations for a 3/5 roll. That's the number I've been citing since replying to someone who said barrel and masterwork don't matter, thus 5/5 not necessary. And that number is right. But I've also incorrectly cited that number in replies to others' comments as the number of combinations for a 3/5 which ignores columns 1 & 2 but does include a preferred masterwork. Since there are 5 masterwork options, the correct number of combinations in that scenario is actually 180 (6*6*5).

But you get a nightfall weapon to drop with each completion. the focus is just there as an additional rng protection. when GM's come out you can get a full reset in less than 10 hours typically especially if you do it on double rank weeks.

You're missing the point. Duh, of course you can farm nightfalls. That's not my point. My question to you is this: Is the cost to FOCUS a weapon too high if there's only a 1 in 2,800 chance of getting 5/5 and only a 1 in 144 chance of getting even a 3/5? Yes or no? When you get a weapon, do you prefer it have only one perk in the 3rd column and one in the 4th column? Or do you prefer when you can select from 2 or 3 perks in columns 3 and 4? You really want fewer options? Ponderous man, really ponderous.

Dude. People who prefer rng are immune to facts, numbers and logic.