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10/27/2023 2:13:31 AM
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Confusion is the right response to it.
The Witness lost the Veil yet for some reason decided to spare humanity? The Disciples showed mercy? The Hive didn’t use their Logic?
Yea, it doesn’t make sense because it’s wholly counter to their natures.
When people say it’s because of Savathun, that also makes no sense.
Who but one of his own could of taken down Nez and stole it from him? Therefore the culprit was one of his own and yet…didn’t bother asking?
So yeah, it makes [i]zero sense[/i] for humanity not to have been wiped out.
That’s why they’ve never touched it. They couldn’t explain it.
The real reason involves the original storyline.
The OG storyline had the Gardner as the source of paracausal power. Kill the Gardner and it all goes away. Remember, the whole franchise was meant to end, not this never ending cash grab crap.
When it was wounded and was falling into a coma, it put out an shield of sorts that kept the Dark side enemies away.
That explains why the Hive and Vex didn’t steam roll us post Collapse. Something that also doesn’t make sense when you think about it.
That’s why in the base D1 grimoire card series, The Dreams of Alpha Lupi, the Gardner talks about the Shell being a cage, it’s memory being tampered with and a feeling it was being herded through the cosmos.
There’s no more details than that really. Most of this comes from the leaked contract between Bungie and Act way back in the early years.
Oh yeah, the Vex origin was retconned as well. They were originally meant to be the converted remains of fallen civilizations.
So likely that was supposed to be our fate had the Gardner not made the Guardians and that shield.
But all of this was changed prior to release. They decided to change the story months before release and cut up the base game to stitch together the campaign.
And that’s why after ten years, Bungie has only finished one storyline. The Cabal.
They were supposed to tell the whole thing in ten years. Everything.
Instead they’ve spent all this time retconning one iteration of the story after another.
I think we are on the sixth one now.
OG, base D1, TTK, base D2, Forsaken, SK-present.
They should be embarrassed but they only care about making money.
English
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[quote]Who but one of his own could of taken down Nez and stole it from him? Therefore the culprit was one of his own and yet…didn’t bother asking?[/quote] This presupposes that the Witness learned about the fate of Nezerac and the Veil during the Collapse, when in all likelihood he never got the chance. From Lightfall’s opening cutscene we know the Witness can use the link between the Traveler and the Veil to locate the latter. This is how it’s species located the Veil in the first place. We know from Savathûn’s Worm that the Witness was sent away in the aftermath of what happened, banished. It’s likely that up until the Red War when the Traveler awoke that the Witness considered it dead, useless for its purposes, it’s Final Shape unable to be fulfilled. It’s messy and we still don’t know the ins and outs, but it makes sense. It’s a shame they didn’t use the revelation that the First Collapse was averted by a fluke to raise the stakes for the Second. Would’ve made things feel more hopeless.
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He wouldn’t of learned of it during but after, when victory had been had and it was ready to open the portal. Which means in the couple of centuries since he sat on his butt doing nothing. I hear some presupposing coming from you to make the counter. So save the hypocrisy, saying you don’t know why or how and yet saying it makes sense is laughable. Cause you can’t admit ignorance yet say it adds up. That’s you just saying Bungie will make it make sense. We shall see.
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Keep in mind that Savathûn openly betrayed the Witness in Arrivals. When the Black Fleet actually began making moves in Sol once again. Assumptions can easily be made. Eido says second hand accounts say Nezerac’s Pyramid crashing into the Moon after the Traveler’s counterattack. There’s also the fact that the Witness did station Rhulk within her Throne World to act as a watchdog. Had we not intervened at all in Witch Queen, Rhulk would’ve accomplished his task and killed her, using the Upended to bring ruin to her cyst universe. Even if the Witness knew Savathûn had betrayed it, there was no benefit to punishing her if it also believed the Traveler was dead. When it awoke in the Red War, Rhulk was still acting as a failsafe. Any actions she took in the meantime were in its interest due to her Worm, until she exorcised it.
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So she possibly used the Travelers counter attack as a smoke screen for his downfall but that doesn’t go into why he didn’t look into the missing Veil. That solves one problem but not the main one. Dues Ex can’t make Savathun talk? Didn’t touch the Shell to find his missing piece? Didn’t learn it wasn’t dead when he gained Vex minions, the Vex who knew it wasn’t dead? Especially when the Black Heart was draining it? Fueling it to transform the Vex? Banished explains some of the time away but not centuries. We saw them chilling, not heading our way. And it was as simple as reaching out to the Shell to penetrate Savathuns magic and reveal its location yet was never done? That’s a big stretch considering it was missing and important either way. It didn’t bother trying? Not a toy you just leave behind in the hands of unknown people. He should of been back sooner, especially after the Hive found out Guardians and Ghosts didn’t think it was dead. Which is decades prior to D1. That’s what I mean, there’s a big window where even if he was stalled, he should of been aware of the Traveler being alive with enough certainty to merit an in person visits before Red War. Especially since without it being alive it has no other chance to implement its plan. Witness should be leaping at any chance it may be alive, not waiting for absolute certainty. It doesn’t make sense unless you don’t think about it and just go along with a ‘just cause’ reasoning.
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[quote]Especially since without it being alive it has no other chance to implement its plan.[/quote] There you go! Right there, you offered an answer to your own question. Up until the Red War there had been no actual sign that the Traveler wasn’t just a husk of Light. Ghosts were flying around, sure, but even they got nothing substantial from the great big round orb in the sky. Accessing the Pale Heart is the end goal of the Witness, which is why it needed the Veil. If the consciousness within the Traveler is dead and that path is severed, there is no reason for the Witness to want the Veil. It isn’t until the Red War displays that the Traveler remains active and not just a Light source that the Pyramid fleet became active again. Honestly the fact that there’s even a single way to justify the story despite the Witness as a big bad only being figured out by the time of Shadowkeep AT THE EARLIEST is surprising. Just wish Lightfall had actually expanded things in a meaningful way given that after Final Shape the Witness and its story is finished.
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Editado por MC 077 Lasombra: 10/29/2023 4:48:37 PMExcept I showed that doesn’t add up when you take into account his Vex minions knew the Traveler wasn’t dead. Cause you wouldn’t be making the Black Heart unless…you were trying to implement your plan. And so did the Hive with their rituals draining it. So no. It doesn’t make sense. Bungie retconned too much and made it worse. It’s not a surprise the Witness was made into the story. The Formless One was in the lore as far back as TTK, if not base D1. The Witness is a repurposed Big Bad. So that’s both points you got wrong. You’re just carrying water for them. 🤦
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Editado por MC 077 Lasombra: 10/29/2023 4:48:04 PM
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[quote]It’s likely that up until the Red War when the Traveler awoke that the Witness considered it dead.[/quote] i just figured he got knocked out cold and the traveler woke him up when it smited ghaul
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Editado por jhermannITJ: 10/27/2023 4:27:57 PM😬 There's a song from "Frozen"... I never saw the movie, I forgot how it goes. The contemporary term I've been talking about to a colleague recently is appropriate to, "BingB0ng"! 😈 It's a modern take on "the bell tolls for thee". It comes from the bell at train stations indicating arrivals & departures. "Bing****"... is the sound a subway car makes right before the doors close and the train leaves the platform. It represents mortality... relative mortality respective a fail state. It all makes sense MC. You 🫵 decided to voluntarily not get on board. You left yourself behind. "Bing****"! as the kids say. (to be clear it's onomatopoeia, with no alternative but I still went back and redacted all but the first example, where the 2nd part of the sound got flagged - the context makes it clear too) If we're in The Endless Night, and always have been... there's no logic to destroying your power source. Cronus stole souls & siphoned power until Zeus/Leto killed him. The "Machines" used us as a power source in the "Matrix". These scenarios/conceits are similar to the arc in Destiny & Destiny 2. No retconn or rehash... same as it ever was, you just missed the boat.
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Oooooohh, Lasombra! This response was muuuusic to my ears! I couldn’t have said it better myself!
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Great lore reply ^
