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7/11/2015 12:09:27 AM
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He tried, but unfortunately failed. He took his arguments from misled preachers of the mid century instead of from the bible. You can't judge an ideology by its abuse. The bible says homosexual sex is a sin. It does not say that about a person's race.
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Exactly.
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But the bible says nothing that can be held as a fact. So therefore if the bible says that homosexuality is a sin? Who is there to hold it as a fact?
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In an atheist world morality is subjective, so who can say anything is wrong or right? Yet we do it all the time.
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You still didn't answer my question.
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Those who believe it to be true. But, ultimately God.
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Editado por Grind on my balls: 7/11/2015 2:28:22 PMYou can't say that because nobody can prove its real. If it was real it probably would've came down and said this book is A) a true account of everything that's happened or B) Do not take it so seriously. It is a moral compass of what to do and what not to do in certain situations. And those who believe it to be true can't affirm anything because they can't state for a fact that it's true.
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God did come down and affirm the Scripture I.e. Jesus. He also expounded on the existing scripture with more teaching. He also proved he was God by dying and then coming back to life. And people saw these things and still rejected him. If you don't want to believe you will find a way not to, despite the evidence.
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Editado por Bloom Unknown : 7/11/2015 3:14:43 PMThere is no evidence, that's the problem. And the anecdotes are severely inconsistent. The historical evidence actually works against mainstream ideas of Christianity. In many ways Christians defy these facts and find ways to remain faithful their individual ideals on Christianity. In a way, every Christian believes in a different God as their beliefs are dictated by their interpretations of the included and unincluded books of the Bible, not the mention the variance between translations.
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That's incorrect. Historical facts are vastly in favor of Christianity. But you don't want it to be true, so you'll seek out sources that after with you.
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And you will seek out sources that confirm your bias. But really, I think we can both search for the opposing views and research. Actually, I already have and so far am not convinced. I'm still waiting for that revelation, but for me it looks like a grassroots religion that was compiled and formulated by the church for political purposes. The authors weren't the apostles, and it is so inconsistent that I am highly skeptical of claims of divine inspiration.
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Actually the writers were the apostles only the book of Hebrews is unknown.
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Who wrote Mathew, Luke, John, Mark, John, Peter, Acts, Romans, Corinthians, etc. ? If you can name the authors I will fact check the claim, but as far as I know all the books I mentioned above have unknown original authors. Also, as far as I know the apostles of Jesus were illiterate, the authors of the many writings written before 100 AD were writing about what they had heard, many claiming to be the apostle of a first hand witness, but clearly from the inconsistencies we can see that much of what the church chose to include was speculation and rumor/myth.
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*ahem* There's a reason why the names of the books are called the names of actual people.
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Actual people perhaps, I'm not sure we really know. Have you read much about the authors of the books and the compilation of the books to create the Bible? I've read that the apostles were illiterate and it is widely accepted that none of the apostles wrote the books themselves, that the writings were from people retelling their stories in narrative format. For example, the book of John was chosen as the best of many authors writing under the pseudonym John (same with most of books of the NT). I've also read that Luke was a more accurate/educated revision of Mathew, almost a complete replica but with more accurate geographical and cultural details as well as a revision of the OT prophecies that were cited by the author of Mathew. The entire book of Mathew is suspicious to me because it has many inaccuracies and inconsistencies (in comparison to the very similar Luke) yet the author claims to be divinely inspired.
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Editado por Ogma: Destroyer of Worlds: 7/11/2015 1:35:17 PMThe Bible also permits many other things like bestiality and slavery. The Bible is the worst moral compass there is. You have a god who gave us free will, then flooded the entire planet because we didn't act the way he wanted. Who issued a list of things not to do, then does almost all of them himself anyway. The entire creation story had the Earth populated through one incestuous family, twice. I find it hard to take seriously anyone who seems to get all of their answers from only a single book. And anyone who's morality is dictated by fear of a supernatural being and from fear of punishment or promise of reward in a supposed afterlife does nothing but keep us as a species, primitive. The only thing one should identify as is human. The only thing guiding morality should be a sense of knowing what your actions may do because you yourself can also feel the pain/hurt/loss/joy/love you inflict on other living things. Anything else isn't worth the energy.
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50 billion children have died since the start of humanity. If that's not an indication that the god of the Bible either doesn't exist or is a total bastard then I don't know what would be.
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This shows exactly how much you don't understand the bible. Your rejection of God is not based on intellect it is based on emotion and emotion rarely produces a logical argument. I'm not going into detail about anything you've listed because, honestly it would be a waste of time. Your presuppositions, emotions, and wantonness have closed off your mind. You don't want truth, you want justification for the position you already hold. The answers to all the questions you have are out there, if you would only but look. Explanations of Salvation: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL43CEFBBD1909D414 Apologetics: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1B7EA7B92476264B Here's a start.
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Editado por Ogma: Destroyer of Worlds: 7/11/2015 2:04:09 PMI've heard it all before. Everything from "metaphors" to "interpretations" that try to hide or justify the disgusting and morally bankrupt behavior in that book. If we do have a creator and everything is his will then he made me a skeptic. If he wants to punish me for it then so be it. I'd rather burn in hell than walk with the one who created it.
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Being a skeptic is fine, but the whole point is to find truth. The trouble is when you reject truth in the name of skepticism.
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I believe that the pursuit for Truth is the most noble goal. That being said, any belief is the opposite of that. Belief is something one chooses in the absence of an answer or explanation. The only true thing is that in the grand scheme of things we know next to nothing. We should stop pretending that we do.
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Belief is something we adhere to when we have the truth of a matter.
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We shouldn't adhere to anything absolutely. We should observe reality and be willing to change our position based on what we observe. We need to humble ourselves to our level of ignorance. We are one tiny dot among countless in a sea of billions upon billions that we haven't explored yet. We know nothing. Things like god are a hypothesis that has yet to be proven in even the slightest capacity. I'm comfortable enough with the unknown that I don't need to adhere to s belief. I entertain ideas and if they are unreasonable I dismiss them. The concept of god falls under that category.
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That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take, but if someone else feels strongly enough about something to take it as truth you really have no basis to say they are wrong. When someone truly accepts Jesus as their saviour, the Holy Spirit literally begins to dwell inside them. You can feel it, it changes things. And until you have experienced it, you will never understand. And had you experienced it, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Unfortunately, man corrupts everything he touches and there is a lot of false teaching and hocus pocus making its way into the church nowadays and its creating a lot of false converts and even more atheists because it doesn't offer anything real. And you might ask, "what about other religions that have experiences?" And I would say that we'd have to delve deep into some theology for that. But from an atheist perspective that would be mumbo jumbo.
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I disagree. He made several logical points, none of which you contest. Maybe you are the one getting emotional and defensive?
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I have no reason to, I've heard these arguments for 20 plus years. Anyone who takes the time to understand the bible instead of having knee jerk reactions wouldn't make these arguments because there is no truth to the assertions. But understanding them takes more time and detail than a forum debate allows.
