Honestly think it is the best it has been since D1, better then it in some aspects, and shadowkeep looks like a nice improvement. My only real problem is the forced pvp for certain things but that has been a thing since D1 and will likely be a thing in D3 so I just need to get used to it.

Way better than D1 ever was and it's not close

[quote]Way better than D1 ever was and it's not close[/quote] I may be mistaken (been a while and google isn't helping) but one thing was less stuff locked behind pvp. Only things I remember in 1 is thorn, last word, and the edge swords (25 kills I think, could be done with out "ammo"). As someone who dislikes pvp the less time I have to spend there the better. I also enjoyed the armor/weapon/subclass perks systems. With armor 2.0 coming that should at least balance that factor out. The secret mission was also much more enjoyable, the one for black spindle vs the zero hour/wisper missions. I don't really mind parkour but timed parkour is stupid. Ended up spending a few days off spam running zero hour to get it for the triumph. Against my better judgement I did it solo, it always came down to rng of it giving me enough ammo or not to finish. I still like both missions just wish it wasn't timed parkour, the combat is a great solo challenge in both missions and the shattered throne so as a mostly solo player having tough but fun stuff to do is something they did right and points for D2. Any other complaints are less either game and just the community. All the rage quitting, elitism, and trying to sabotage other players is rather frustrating, but that is how most "endgame" content goes in every multiplayer game. Either have enough friends to do it without randos or hope you aren't wasting time.

That was kinda long so I'll break it into your 2 major points.. 1) forced PvP. Completely agree. It existed in D1 that we had to play crucible for certain things, but it's way worse in D2. Crucible is god awful, and we shouldn't have to go in there ever. Do consider that the reason for these things is that the PvP community spent the entirety of D1 whining (about everything, but for the purpose of this discussion, specifically that...) that there was no reason to play PvP, that there was no PvP endgame outside of trials, etc. This is Bungie listening to years of gripes As someone that also recognizes crucible as a shit game mode, that's hardly a consolation when I have to go in there to fill out my collection. However, it is why these forums need to be less hive minded and people need to push back on stupid complaints, as opposed to bandwagoning because it presents an opportunity to complain. 2) black spindle mission vs outbreak/whisper/juju Fair enough. As a matter of personal preference that's perfectly valid. I don't mind the parkour because it adds to the epic-ness and the mystery of the experience. Especially because I usually go in as blind as possible to figure it out with friends, I love the wide expanded and finding your way through. It's like solving a puzzle and it's fun, and no other games are really offering similar experiences. I will say, to find middle ground because I do find your points very reasonable, the parkour loses some of its luster on the 15th time through the mission. The biggest thing is that I think we can all agree that these secret/surprise/hidden missions are some of the best content in the franchise, and D1 only had 1, whereas D2 has 3. Your points really are reasonable though, whereas most of the D1>D2 crowd are speaking directly out of their asses and just parroting dumb, often times objectively false, talking points. The last thing I'd say is that there are so many things about D2 that are better, so many extra features, that even if we took your 2 good points at face value, they hardly tip the scales in favor of D1.

[quote]That was kinda long[/quote] Yeah I do that. [quote]The last thing I'd say is that there are so many things about D2 that are better, so many extra features, that even if we took your 2 good points at face value, they hardly tip the scales in favor of D1.[/quote] This was the point I was trying to make in both posts. Over the course of year 1 and 2 it has gotten better in basically every regard. I see them on equal footing atm with D1 being better in a few areas D2 in others but both being great games. Hell if shadowkeep/year3 is half as good as I expect it will end up being better then D1 in every regard. I also get the complaints can change the game for better or worse. Like all the complaints for random rolls to return so they could grind more, and now all the complaints of the game being to grindy. I also left bad juju out of the comparison as it wasn't timed (timed parkour being the only issue I had with them) I honestly thought the bad juju quest was amazingly done and would love more things like it (accidently solo flawlessed it first try just going in exploring to scout for my team lol) Part of my issue with the timer is it makes exploring or just enjoying the environment feel bad and sometimes I just like looking at the scenery.

[quote]This was the point I was trying to make in both posts. Over the course of year 1 and 2 it has gotten better in basically every regard. I see them on equal footing atm with D1 being better in a few areas D2 in others but both being great games. Hell if shadowkeep/year3 is half as good as I expect it will end up being better then D1 in every regard. [/quote] I'd definitely agree that there are a few things that were stripped away and a few things that were better about D1, but the pie chart favors D2 by a huge margin. Keep in mind that July 29th of year 2 of D1, we hadn't had anything to do for 9 months and I was playing Something else. In D2, I have the season of opulence which is awesome, and I'm STILL working on old seals, triumphs and catalysts while waiting for the solstice event which looks like it is going to provide dozens of hours of entertainment. [quote]I also get the complaints can change the game for better or worse. Like all the complaints for random rolls to return so they could grind more, and now all the complaints of the game being to grindy[/quote] LOL yep I'm glad you caught that too. That's far from the only hypocrisy too. [wuote]I also left bad juju out of the comparison as it wasn't timed (timed parkour being the only issue I had with them) I honestly thought the bad juju quest was amazingly done and would love more things like it (accidently solo flawlessed it first try just going in exploring to scout for my team lol) Part of my issue with the timer is it makes exploring or just enjoying the environment feel bad and sometimes I just like looking at the scenery.[/quote] Yeah there's a benefit to both. I like having a mix like what we have now. Some timed , some without timer, is a great mix. I'd like to see 50/50 and for the next one not to have a timer.

[quote]Keep in mind that July 29th of year 2 of D1, we hadn't had anything to do for 9 months and I was playing Something else. In D2, I have the season of opulence which is awesome, and I'm STILL working on old seals, triumphs and catalysts while waiting for the solstice event which looks like it is going to provide dozens of hours of entertainment.[/quote] So I ended up thinking about and I believe the main reason I never experienced content drought issues was I tend to have 2-5 games going at a time. Hell pretty much the only reason I've been spending all my free time in Destiny 2 is it has so much to do this season (a bit of catch up for new title) is none of my other games have much going on. I have still got to do all the raids (not really looking forward to that), I have yet to earn any titles (not that interest in them or they involved pvp so passed), and looking forward to solstice I rather enjoyed last years (the spark boss was cool).

Agreed 👍 love pvp but have to be in the mood