If Bungie decided to release the game as it existed between Vanilla Launch and HoW (pre-TTK balancing patch era HoW), then I'd gladly pay money again to go play THAT game once again. We expected them to continue building off of THAT game, not for Bungie to spin a 180 and go back to making Halo games.

I agree vanilla right through HoW even with the faults was a great game with untapped potential. After was just meh I still played the f out of it longing for those days again but they weren't to be. What we have now is as far from vanilla as it could possibly be and D2 well the beta anyway seems to be keeping to that trend. Slower weaker less fun more boring just like every other fps out there.

Seems we have a choice. Don't buy and don't play D2, or play it and complain, knowing that so long as Bungie is making money, they'll never reverse coarse. Personally, I've chosen to put my money where my mouth is and not buy the game. They can ALWAYS bring me back to the Destiny universe. But they need to reverse coarse and go back to the Y1 formula that made this game so addicting we couldn't put it down.

I cancelled pre order after the beta I'll wait for reviews and see what mates say. Have a feeling they won't be good.

If the 2018 TTK-Like DLC isn't a come-to-jesus style DLC where they finally completely bifurcate PVE from PVP, set up different modes to cater to different kinds of PVP players, provide us more customization options in the skill trees, get rid of the dual primary system, etc., then they might be able to get me back to the franchise. Any mix of those may be enough to show they're going in the right direction. If it doesn't do ANY of that, there is no way I'll be getting D2.

Honestly I don't see any of it happening which is a shame really.

Indeed. But I haven't played Destiny since RoI came out. I didn't buy RoI. The only way to send a clear message is to not buy the game. Will it work? Who knows, but if you simply buy the game, Bungie has no incentive whatsoever to change the game.

And there's the disconnect. We can all whine that the game they gave us isn't exactly what they said we were building. HOWEVER, both times, prior to the release, they opened a completely free beta which was a pretty exact look at how the game was going to be. At that point people needed to realize that this is what we're getting and spend (or don't spend) their money accordingly. They didn't. This game is not what was promised back in 2010 or whenever they revealed it. It's never going to be. That is a fact we must accept and move on. At this point we have to stop dealing with what should have been. Hypothetical's do exactly squat. Look at the game they've presented. Decide whether it's enough to satisfy you. If not, don't spend your money. Barking at Bungie for not delivering exactly what they promised stopped being useful like 3 years ago.

But I want it so much to be what we were promised. Also we got very little to judge in the beta except that everything is way slower haven't been given much specific pve wise how many story mission's how many strikes lost sectors etc etc. I know we have the 5/6 modes and 10/11 maps pvp wise. But I wasn't barking at bungie although a lot of people are now about certain thing's and none of it will change anything feedback is basically pointless. Why because bungie have repeatedly said they want the game to be played a certain way so all the feedback in the world won't change that.

And I was with you. Was. I'm throwing it back to Destiny 1 beta btw. They gave us a taste of the game that would ship. The beta was nothing like what they promised. At THAT point, people should've held their money and said "Hey. This isn't what you promised. This isn't what I wanted. WTF" But they didn't....They went out in droves and bought it. We gave up our power as consumers because we, as a community, willfully bought a product we didn't want. Now I LOVE the game. As it is and was. I just also recognize the faults and can obviously tell that the game is much different than what they said. And I'm sorry, i should've clarified. The community in general was barking at Bungie, I don't mean any of this directed at you personally. And your point of the feedback being pointless is part of the reason I made this post. Whether we like it or not, Bungie is going to move the game in the general direction THEY want. Period. As evidenced by precedence, they do listen to feedback. They do take it into account, and they do implement stuff we ask for...BUT it's got to be something they can work into their vision of the game. That seems bad to a lot of people and it's really because they're entitled. It's Bungie's game. We purchase the right to play it and they have the right to do with it as they please. We just trust them to do what's in the best interest of the community when we should realize that they have done and will continue to do what is in the best interest for Bungie. I'll finish with this. Again, I was totally on board with wanting the promised game. That I can't fault anyone for, but at the point we're at now, we know that isn't coming. It's just a fact we have to accept. So with that in mind, people need to make the conscious decision to NOT buy the game if they see too much in it that needs changing or if they think it'd take significant changes for the game to be enjoyable for them. You don't buy a car and then take it back to the lot and ask them to change 15 things about it, and they just kindly oblige, ya know?

Brilliant post.