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Editado por Kone19ps:
2/28/2017 7:32:17 PM
26
Shotguns are fine. Don't die and use your cover and movement speed to get close. Don't fire fast enough increase your rof. Want range use that archetype.
Just don't bumrush like a lemming and you'll do fine. I've got the best of both worlds full auto version and max range matador. Both had me dominating rumble in the first week after the patch
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Aka use the far more consistent fusion which fills the grounded roll better, or simply use a sidarm that does allow vertical movement Predictability is an easy way to die. If your opponent knows you have to stay grounded, you are at a huge disadvantage
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 12:14:37 AMWell you don't have to stay grounded. Take your shot from the ground if you want there is no precision so I aim chest. Center mass and they hit. I prefer to slide and juke with shadestep but I was also able to land and shoot or shoot from the air. The difference with a shotgun is you don't have to slow down to fire. Fusions and sidearms require you to Slow down a bit making yourself a bigger target on the way. Shotguns it's quick aim and pull. Hold if you're doing full auto. Sure it's harder from the air but it was the fly by shottgunning that I hated in the first place about the last meta.
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Do you know how much predictablity comes with staying grounded?
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Quite a bit but depends more on the map and like I've said in the air with the distance closed its reliable for me. But before you didn't even have to stop. That's why I call it flyby shotgunning. Worse even was when everyone did it regardless of death trading all the damn time over and over. If special stays as power weapons some small buffs to shotguns could help. But not if we go back to regular ammo for them. Fusions and shotguns are very different playstyles even from a grounded standpoint.
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It was never an issue when primaries were better
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Yes it was felwinters and matador were a force to be reckoned with and were kept in check by last word and thorn. Not primaries except the high impact pulses beefed up to compete with the exotic handcannons before HOW. Felwinters started the nerfs it was so ridiculous
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Theres the problem, shotguns and snipers need to be the most lethal things in the game. You arent supposed to overpower them, but outsmart and outmaneuver them People never realized that with shotguns and now they just straight up arent lethal at all
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 12:40:14 AMThat mentality without ammo restriction guarantees a special meta. Something I do not want. I don't want 0.6-0.4ttk and 0.22 last word primaries again to attempt to compete with that and I'm sick of being constantly on the defensive because of that mentality. No flinch sniping was broken you can't outsmart every damn lane being locked down by something you can't at least bump the aim a bit on. Flyby shotgunning did the same thing. Forced a constant defensive playstyle because at any second some lemming about to trade with you or a legit skilled person is going to come flying around a corner. Without loss of ammo this encouraged this even more from no penalty with that trade or death besides screwing your teams score which no one cared about outside of iron banner. I've said before 3v3 needs a different special economy from 6v6 and I think the special as power weapons gives more room to buff them, but you don't get power and ammo at the same time anymore. If I wanted a ttk with no room for skill to matter besides twitch reflex I'd play cod.
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Difference beetween higher ttk and more practicality. Im not saying they should go right back to their best states. But definitely should be much more practical
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 6:16:21 PMWell my stance is still a power weapon special economy provides room for buffs. Will bungie do it I don't know but definitely not if they go back to how it was before. No limit on special availability is what drove the nerfs to begin with because to me, many others, and luckily for me bungie does not want a twitch shooter 0.6-0.4ttk again. Many here disagree. But like we've gone back and forth it's pretty much the same thing. One group thinks tactical thought and ebb and flow gameplay is boring bland and generic. The other, me included think the twitch shooter ttk who sees who first wins and constant ohks are boring bland and generic. It's all a playstyle preference. The difference is before that playstyle limited every other playstyle. Now you can use whatever. If you want to use the old playstyle you're kinda pigeon holed into a few builds, which I want buffed to allow, but that's the point of builds. To break out of traditional weapon roles. Aka run and gun sniping or unlimited shotgun ammo. Thorn, snipers, shotguns. All in their hay day did the same thing. Limited engagements to a handful of scenarios that got boring and stale incredibly quickly.
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Both can be fun, problem is destiny wasent designed around a slow pace When you try to mold it into something it isint, it dosent feel quite right. The mechanics clash with this lobotomized image and it is pretty apparent
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 6:27:43 PMThe movement wasn't meant to be slow paced and the ttk really isn't that slow either. I rush with primaries and secondary fine now. I've had this debate with Kelly. High movement speed doesn't require high ttk. Only if you resent being slowed from max speed a little, which like I said is the core disagreement. I think that gives plenty of room for diversity. Some weapons are still very conducive to that amped to 11 playstyle it's just not the only viable strategy. People want their guardian at 11 the whole time and if catered to like it was then anyone not in that cranked up to 11 state has to play defensively. It's not like that was even that viable. More who pulls the trigger first the rusher or the counter. More often I just saw it abused by lemmings trading constantly that just want to sprint to action, trade, square as quickly as possible, sprint, repeat. It was old and I was sick of defending against it constantly. Destiny in vanilla was about the same ttk as now. It only got faster with the pve balanced exotics that then got themselves nerfed and the high impact pulses brought up just have some competition. Legendary Handcannons had the same ttk as now just actual damage fall off now. I'm a little busy with school to keep going over this but thank you this was a lot more cordial than some of our other debates and I enjoyed it a lot. I feel like people feel held back and lobotomized at least in pvp because that was the point. Bungie and many of never want to action turned to max at all times. It's nice to be able to actually flank someone and not be septuple shotgunned every time for trying any strategy.
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As cliche as it sounds, fusion buffs cpuod have easily created a better option for passive play. You seem to not like high ttk's sure, but the problem is the lack of versatility, consistency, practicality on a lot of weapons Shotguns used to be perfect, problem is handcannons used to be so damn impractical, now they are very consistent with good aim, and shotguns are inconsistent, and we can easily see the more picked choice
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[quote]As cliche as it sounds, fusion buffs cpuod have easily created a better option for passive play. [/quote] How though? Charge time is balanced against range for them. Meaning the lower the charge time the closer to shotgun territory you get. That's why we see so many favored like vacancy, thesian, and saladins. The distance allows the charge time to be mediated against the rest of the close range meta but you bette the able to track the shotgunners and sidearms. Autos are the bane of fusions but still are kinda weak. Especially compared to handcannons. Except handcannons excel at cover shooting which is far more reliable than consistent fire on the current maps. Honestly due to lmao selection handcannons are going to dominate. I think that's why bloom was so extreme to begin with and why we have a handcannon meta now. Maps combined with high damage and precision just put them at the top every time. [quote]You seem to not like high ttk's sure, but the problem is the lack of versatility, consistency, practicality on a lot of weapons Shotguns used to be perfect, problem is handcannons used to be so damn impractical, now they are very consistent with good aim, and shotguns are inconsistent, and we can easily see the more picked choice[/quote] I find shotguns to be inconsistent from lag. Missing is missing not inconsistency. And versatility is something that really doesn't have a place in destiny. Everything has a trade off here. You can excel at something and take a hit or you get some middle of the road. MIDA is the example there. It became way too versatile. Now it's a good balanced weapon besides the damn aim assist still letting bullets go around corners. Your versatility comes I your ability to have multiple builds and coordinate with your team. Not be a one man jack of all trades army at all times. Handcannons I understand people wanted them more consistent and I like the changes but because of primarily map design and just how they function. Their major disadvantage of rof is actually not really there. A small buff to autos is what I hope for but in reality destiny one just doesn't have the nuance to its programming really balancing the weapons requires. For example how they didn't have exotics like vex separated from fusions for so long and how now they still need to adjust sidearms because they don't track ammo fully on them like other weapons to give us the smaller magazine to spawn with
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Well problem is not disadvantages of weapons, its the lack of advantages
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 8:04:54 PMTo which I say a reduced availability of ammo allows some of those advantages to be enhanced and pushed further because the whole meta won't have to adjust to its constant availability. We can actually have more versatile specials because no matter what death is a risk so there is a limit to how much a really strong weapon can influence a game. The ebb and flow that I talk about so that all weapons don't have to be made generic to stay balanced with the entire game at all times. And more importantly they seem to have finally separated special in pvp from pve for differences combine with the room to buff. Sidearms just need to not be an exception because they were always strong just not popular
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Limitation isint variation
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 8:18:11 PMIf you're limiting something that limited variety you do. If you have an overpopulation of deer (special) and you can't reintroduce wolves (primaries) because they would kill too much else acceptable to humans (twitch shooter ttk) you lose a variety of plants and even ecosystems (large variety of weapon viability) when we talk elk that literally change the landscape with their migrations. So you cull the deer and reintroduce an acceptable amount of predators back into the ecosystem. Like I said I think specials can be buffed from here to not be overwhelmed by primaries in their niches without skill but not with full availability.
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We can try that or just go back to when the majority enjoyed the game
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 8:33:49 PMMajority are still playing. Numbers haven't dropped that low since the patch. Besides there are far more factors for why people quit. Many of the players that quit for other reason that may have liked the special change also I doubt are coming back because the rest of the game is so overplayed. Destiny is old. I stopped playing almost entirely until this revitalized 6v6 crucible for me
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But since year 1?
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 8:37:52 PMSkewed stat. People left for a variety of reasons. Pvp is not going to be the biggest. Pve having barely any content is the big one. Being lied to constantly by bungie another. Not having friends to play with and not want to go out of game to find them is another. Ttk had the population return with a surge. The game is old. Majority of the content is stale. That's more why people leave. Hell the biggest player drop offs this game had was still right after release and the end of HOW. GameStop wouldn't even take destiny it was returned so quickly by so many disappointed people. The raid was all that kept it from pulling a no man's sky
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Age is a non issue, look at counter strike, team fortress, hell even fallout stillmhas huge player bases, and they dont even drop
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Editado por Kone19ps: 3/1/2017 8:56:50 PMAge is most certainly an issue. Games strong enough to break that norm doesn't change that. Especially with console games and game like destiny where their content can't even keep people satisfied for a couple weeks now. Type of game heavily influences this alone with polish and destiny is certainly far from polished. Shit goes through walls on purpose because of how they build maps. Damage going on the ground was broken for most of this game. The amount of content in destiny vs fallout is laughable. Not to mention it builds a more believable and vibrant world. Destiny is empty and hollow constantly pulling you out of the game world. You can't even properly RP it's so jarring
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Thats a content issuel not an age issue
