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Editado por TheArtist:
4/10/2016 2:28:24 AM
18
No.
I think Bungie is twenty years out of step with the rest of the industry. They're management style and way of interacting with the community is more like that a of a company from the 1990s than one in 2016. They are slow, and stubborn compared to other more responsive and nimble video game developers.
The new CEO seems to be allowing for better communication with the customer base (community).
But beyond that Bungie keeps making the same mistakes in managing the game that they've always made.
I HOPE its only because the new CEO hasn't had enough time to allow to a significant change in direction....and that it not that he agrees with the way this game is headed.
In short, Bungie refuses to
1. Accept that Destiny is an MMO-RPG that also happesn to be a FPS.
2. Accept that you can't manage a MMO-RPG the same wy that you manage a typical FPS.
3. Accept that they have no experience in managing the kind of game they actually created...and either hirer people who do have it.....or reach out to companies (cough Blizzard cough) that have that experience and learn from them.
Instead we watch Bungie slowly ruin the game by alienating its PVE players in pursuit of a PVP "balance" it will never attain because it trying to so in a way that is incompatible with the kind of weapon system they designed the game around.
Yet they stubbornly press on doing the same thigns, even they they haven't worked in nearly 2 years of trying.
So no, they aren't getting better. At least not in mission- critical ways.
English
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This. Their strategy is seriously outdated and no way will they survive 10 years unless they take steps to be more agile.
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Editado por Mr Goodkat: 4/10/2016 12:12:09 PM[quote]1. Accept that Destiny is an MMO-RPG that also happesn to be a FPS.[/quote] Here's your main issue. Destiny is not an MMO at all (12 person tower/patrol, 6v6 crucible and 6 person raid is not massive), and it gives the barest nod at being an RPG. It is an FPS, first and foremost. For an RPG first, shooter second, lol at division. See how it's fairly different from Destiny? So your comparison would go a lot better if you accepted that Destiny is not an MMORPG, but just a shooter, really.
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....and how is Bungie trying to manage Destiny as a "shooter", WORKING for them? When I logged in yesterday----the DAY before a major content drop----there were SIX people in my Tower instance. The reason WHY The Division is a different game than Destiny is because The Division EMBRACES and emphasizes the fact that the game is an RPG....but does not IGNORE the fact that it is also a shooter. People get hung up (for some God-forsaken reason) about whether or not Destiny is like your typical MMO...when that fact is BESIDE the point. The POINT is that Destiny is enough of an instanced MMO, that the game has MANY of the problems that MMOs have....and therefore needs to be mangaged in many of the same ways that an MMO has to. ..and the problem is that Bungie doesn't know what they are doing in that arena....and refuses to either learn or hire people who do know what they are doing.
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They refuse to let it be an RPG. They brought quest for guns and shit which is great because it brings in more elements. No destiny is not an MMO, because it's a hybrid of many features of different genres. And btw the division is just a shitty version of destiny in 3rd person. Division uses a shittier formula than destiny
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1. Destiny is an MMORPG-FPS hybrid...and Bungie will CONTINUE to mismanage this game, and run off its PVE fanbase as long as Bungie refuses to acknowledge this fact. 2. Hardly. The Division is succeeding because they have a clear vision of the game they created...and what they want it to be. They are also taking DIRECT aim at....and plan to run off with.....a significant part of the PVE fanbase that Bungie has been alienating and disregarding. Because Bungie insists on managing a game that has SIGNIFICANT MMO and RPG elements....as if it were Halo 5. ...and it is failing miserably. YOU may not LIKE The Division...and it may not be the game for you. But do NOT assume that Ubisoft Massive doesn't know what they are doing...and they are not succeeding at it. Their strategy for managing their game is succeeding. Bungie's is failing.
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[quote]They refuse to let it be an RPG. They brought quest for guns and shit which is great because it brings in more elements. No destiny is not an MMO, because it's a hybrid of many features of different genres. And btw the division is just a shitty version of destiny in 3rd person. Division uses a shittier formula than destiny[/quote] Maybe because Bungie didn't want Destiny to be an RPG. Yes, it could be, but that's not the kind of game they made. An extreme example: why isn't Tetris an RPG? Yes they could've given it RPG elements, but much better to just let it be a simple puzzle game. You're trying to force your expectations of what you want the game to be. Don't like Destiny not being an RPG? Go play a real RPG. And comparing Division to Destiny? Again, two totally different games. Division focuses mainly on being an RPG with shooter elements and a modern day theme. It's very similar to ESO with guns in NYC. The fact you're comparing it to FPS shows you don't get this. Yes, they're both loot driven (with Division having the better RNG formula, imo), but that's about where the similarities end.
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Yep. ...and as the saying goes. [i] "How's that workin' for ya??"[/i] It's Bungie's game...and they can do anything they want with it...but at the end of the day, what they are doing IS....NOT.....WORKING. The game that they intended to last 10 years is well on its way to withering and dying. As they alienate and run off to other games, the people who took up this game expecting it to continue on and evolve as a MMO-RPG/FPS hybrid. Bungie has spent most of year two managing the game as if it were an ordinary shooter....and catering almost entirely to its PVP fanbase....and that is NOT proving to be sufficient for this game to be healthy and continue to thrive. In typical Bungie fashion, they keep doing the same thigns again and again....and expecting a different outcome than they got the OTHER half dozen times.
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They both have raids, bullet sponges and the same damn systems. The only thing different is the 3rd person and space magic. They both play off of Rng loot and bullet sponges. And don't tell me you can add RPG elements to Tetris. That completely changes the game if you tried to add those. Destiny is an RPG first person shooter. Bungie doesn't admit that because they have no idea what the hell they're doing. Yes, I'd like more RPG elements. But I am not blind to the fact that the game has an fps side. [spoiler]Tetris... You really are an idiot. [/spoiler]
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[quote]They both have raids, bullet sponges and the same damn systems. The only thing different is the 3rd person and space magic. They both play off of Rng loot and bullet sponges.[/quote] And? They both utilize a controller, too. You're getting caught up in the details. There's a lot more difference than POV and theme. With Division, you can drastically customize your build and change the game, using perks, abilities, weapons and gear (with different stats and bonuses to your DPS, health, skill, abilities, etc). Division is a full fledged RPG, and people who complain about the bullet sponges don't understand what an RPG is. You can't run around one-shotting everything, like CoD, in an RPG. With Destiny, you basically have different weapon types. In the grand scheme of things, do the different perks and abilities change the way you play? Not really, except in very special circumstances which don't happen that often. You can run through crucible with white, RNG gear and easily win. You can run through most PvE encounters with any gear, as long as your light is on par with the activity. It's more skill based on twitchy thumbs (like an FPS/CoD) than Division, which is more based on tactics and your character's build (like an RPG/ESO). [quote]And don't tell me you can add RPG elements to Tetris.[/quote] Introduce a character and add a story that shows why he's breaking the blocks (maybe he's an engineer or some evil guy buried his girl). Give him different choosable abilities that make it easier or situational to help and make it easier, but can only be used after breaking enough blocks (like building a super). Slowdown time for two seconds, stop for 0.5 seconds, change the shape of one block, reverse gravity, etc. Beat levels and get better gear to boost your abilities, etc. All while still just breaking the blocks. It's not that hard, you just have to be creative. [quote]That completely changes the game if you tried to add those.[/quote] Kinda, but in the same way it changes Destiny if you try to make it an RPG. [quote]Yes, I'd like more RPG elements. But I am not blind to the fact that the game has an fps side.[/quote] Me, too, because I like RPGs. While you're not blind to the fact that it has an FPS side, what you are blind to is the fact that that is its, pretty much, [i]only[/i] side. [quote]Tetris... You really are an idiot.[/quote] And now that you've resorted to throwing insults simply because you don't have a good counter argument and don't understand what Destiny is, I'm done here. Muted (so you know not to reply since it will fall on deaf ears).
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Actually it is you who are failing to see the forest for the trees. HE"S distilled the situation down to the basics. The differences between The Division and Destiny are one's of DEGREE....not kind. Both games are RPG-shooters. Destiny emphasizes shooter. The Division emphasizes RPG. BUT THE DIVISION DOESN'T IGNORE THE FACT THAT IT IS A SHOOTER. Whithin the limits of being a TP, cover-based shooter, Massive manages that aspect of the game well. Whereas Bungie seems to be doing EVERYTHING in its power to IGNORE or minimize the MMO-RPG aspects that THEY THEMSELVES baked into the game....and that drew many people to playing the game. If Bungie wants the game to always be a shooter first....that's fine. Massive made the decision that The Division will always be an RPG first. But Destiny is failing because Bungie doesn't know what its doing where the management of RPGs is concerned....and refuses to even acknowledge that there is a problem, or that they lack the necessary experience.
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I didn't feel like reading the whole thing since you essentially proved my point against yourself. Oh and I know you didn't mute. Nobody writes a 10 minute response and then doesn't look for a counter. And yes you are an idiot. Contrary to what you think I don't have the time to explain why you're an idiot or why I could give two shits about your whole response. Thanks for arguing with me and proving my point. Now go ahead and run away. Doesn't bother me In the slightest. Just means I've won this argument.
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Destiny is a fps first . Not a MMO RPG first in anyway.
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Doesn't matter.
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Well, that invalidates your post in every way
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NO. Because the fact that Bungie wants to emphasize the shooter aspects of the game, doesnt' make its MMO-RPG aspects disappear. Or allow Bungie to get away without managing them appropriately . Seventy-five percent of the problems that are plaguing this game right now find their source in the fact that Bungie doesn't know what its doing with RPG games, isn't doing what is necessary to keep one healthy, and didn't plan for being able to do them.
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They function more as an independent indie developer and that's one of the things I truly appreciate about them
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Except they're most definitely not, and that's what I dislike about them.
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Stated perfectly. Spot on.
