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Edited by Doctor_Roidberg: 1/29/2019 4:06:14 PM
14

The problem with Luna’s Howl/Not Forgotten

Crucible pinnacle weapons are highly sought after and hard to acquire. Redrix’s Claymore was the first of these, requiring Fabled in Season 3 before weapon slot changes away from double primaries. The thing was terrifying to see because it was so rare yet so potent. Very few people got their hands on it, and Bungie wanted more people to experience it, so they rebirthed the Claymore as the Broadsword, as a Valor pinnacle weapon as opposed to a Glory weapon. Next let’s look at the Mountaintop. A single shot grenade launcher that utilizes special ammo. Capable of one shotting just like every other single shot special ammo grenade launcher. This is a Fabled rank Glory pinnacle weapon. So let’s take a look at what makes these pinnacle weapons. In both weapons there is a distinct feature that differentiates it from other weapons of that type. For Mountaintop, it’s that there is no arc to the projectile. It can be aimed and fired in a linear fashion without having to compensate for gravity, and does not bounce upon striking the ground. It allows it to have more precision and predictability than other special ammo grenade launchers. The Mountaintop is a regular weapon with a slight static buff to its performance that makes it slightly easier to use. It doesn’t effect the TTK and any other special ammo grenade launcher can accomplish the same thing with slightly more difficulty. Then the Claymore/Broadsword. This weapon is in essence, a regular pulse rifle. It shoots, recoils, and damages just like any other pulse. However, the pinnacle part is a perk that is activated through specific and moderately difficult circumstances in order to drastically reduce the TTK of the weapon for a limited time. This is a very powerful perk, but this weapon is available to everyone through quickplay. Then there is the Luna’s Howl and the Not Forgotten. These things are abominations. They are Fabled glory rewards, so require a bunch of competitive crucible to obtain, and the perk they reward is Magnificent Howl. Magnificent Howl is an activated perk like the Broadsword, but the activation is so easy it’s practically a static perk. It requires two headshots to activate. Two headshots with a 180 RPM Hand Cannon, a weapon literally designed for precision with the least recoil of all hand cannons, with Zen Moment on top of it all. This weapon has a 0.66 TTK against a single target, requiring 2 crits followed by one Magnificent Howl shot, whether it’s a body or a head. It is possible to reach a 0.33 TTK by activating the perk then changing targets to another enemy and two critting them for the kill. This perk has a timer of 3 seconds and deactivates on a kill or a miss. This is an absolute monster of a weapon. It’s an absolutely ridiculous idea and how Bungie ever thought it was a good idea I don’t know. It literally makes your weapon do 2.3X the damage for three seconds just by shooting an enemy in the head twice with one of the most stable hand cannon archetypes ever. And of that archetype, it’s one of the most stable weapons in the archetype because of Zen Moment. And just to be clear here, it’s a 2.3X damage buff. Two hundred and thirty percent. Another weapon damage buff, Kill Clip, is only 153% and requires you to kill someone and reload. Magnificent Howl provides a 77% bigger damage buff than Kill Clip and all you have to do is get two crits with a gun made for crits. Other weapons in this archetype have an ideal TTK of 1.00. A difference of 0.33 seconds, which doesn’t sound like a lot, but when you consider that that 1.00 with a regular 180 requires four (4) critical shots as opposed to their 2 crit one body (in order) it’s tough. They have to land three shots to your four with half the crits and yet those three shots are at the same fire rate. Guys, it’s not that hard to figure out. The weapon literally breaks its own archetype by drastically lowering its own TTK. It destroys any desire for any other primary weapon because none of them compete. You have to either resort to long range with a pulse or scout rifle, or not using primary at all and using a special weapon with a TTK between 0.2 and 0. Luna’s Howl is part of the reason that this BS shotgun meta exists, because fusions flinch and miss shots and snipers are a damn train wreck. Small maps combined with this kind of overpowered and unchallenged primary practically forces a OHK meta because if you prolong a gunfight with this gun, with any other primary, you’re going to lose. And the thing that makes this weapon so broken is skill level. Because if I have my Trust, and blueberry has his Luna’s, if we are the same exact skill level I will still lose every time. Because it consistently busts its archetype. These guns were a mistake and I don’t see an easy fix. My recommendation would be that Magnificent Howl be changed to two critical shots loads a SINGLE BULLET that doubles in damage on a precision hit only. If you miss, it deactivates, and you don’t get extra damage on a body shot. It would cause the weapon to keep its same TTK on a single target but require 3 crits instead of two crits one body. And I’m sure sweats and people that paid for recoveries are going to swarm this. I’m sure you’ll pull up my stats and try to say I can’t say any of this because I don’t have a glorious 3.5 KD, what could I know. I’m presenting the facts about this gun. It has a ridiculously low TTK, it has a complete lack of competition from other primaries, it breaks its own archetype, it’s “Pinnacle Perk” is extremely easy to activate and has a ridiculous amount of power, and this weapon is extremely hard to get. It’s worth noting that my experience comes from PS4. From what I’ve seen and heard, Luna’s and NF aren’t as much of an issue on PC due to the effectiveness of other hand cannons such as Ace of Spades. However, Luna’s and NF are a much bigger problem on console because recoil control with a controller is much harder, so 110s, 140s, and 150s are much harder to control and see much less use than 180s. And Luna’s and NF act as the 180 to rule them all, leading to massive instability in the meta. I get that it’s a pinnacle weapon. I get that it’s hard to achieve. I agree it should be good. But this is just bloody insane. (Edits for grammar, capitalization, and spelling.)

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  • Edited by hemlock: 1/29/2019 5:47:38 PM
    I have them both and they don't make you invisible, I am sorry but I am going to be that guy... you just got to get better. In quickplay, if I find myself agaisnt overwhelming better players with NF, I just switch my playstyle and play more distance. That is the one weakness of these guns, range. I either switch my to sniper+nf, or pulse rifle+fusion rifle or sniper+fighting lion, etc. Does it always work? No. But thats okay, you don't get to win everything. In comp, that's a different animal. You just have to outlay your opponents. There's No way around it.

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  • They need to: Change the way you earn/lose glory. Do something about account recoveries. Make it obtainable quicker when you reach a certain glory but have a way of obtaining it through other means (longer quest steps) so that you are at least making progress regardless of how long it takes

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    • My man over adding 100 to the howl perk when it's 130 not 230. Obviously has never used it.

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      • It’s why you don’t have competitive pvp in a loot game.

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        • Edited by ShaxxCousin: 1/29/2019 9:38:01 AM
          I’m on PC and its just as bad there too. I’ve been saying the same thing. For a weapons that’s supposed to reward skill, the main perk is ridiculously easy to proc.

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        • Bungie backed themselves into the corner with Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten. They created the overpowered pinnacle weapon that everyone wants but only great players can obtain. Do they need an overpowered perk to wreck in Crucible? No. Do they care that it makes them unbeatable? No. There is no way Bungie can balance this weapon without pissing off their most dedicated Crucible players. But these weapons along with Precision frame Shotguns have ruined Crucible.

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          • Yes Luna NF is hot. I’d make all precision HC three crit kills and leave Luna/NF “as-is”. Buff everything else too I say.

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              TLDR Judging by your title i'm just gonna say this: I've seen a lot of them in PVP and some folks just got carried/paid for it cause they sucked so bad that i don't believe they managed to get it themselves. Eeeeeeeeeeeeasy to counter! Then you have the sweats, which are good and deadly with those weapons but not immortal!! I mean, you have to play smart! Can't run up to him from across the map and expect to survive! I've seen so many people in pvp who either have no thumbs or no insights on corners/jumping/grenade usage/etc.. People need to watch more cammycakes for example.. Don't chase a shotgun behind a corner!!

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              • Edited by Jericho_Wolf99: 1/29/2019 3:00:23 AM
                Just going to say didn't read your post because here's my argument. The real problem with those weapons is they are in a mode that very few people play and is basically unobtainable because of this fact. Couple that with a penalty to point reduction for losing and you got your cancer know as bungies Destiny PvP.

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              • My biggest problem with Luna is getting thrown into the Crucible with players who are good enough to (1) get it and (2) activate its skill-centered perk. Anyone who can do that shouldn't be fighting against someone like me.

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                • The problem IS lunas howl/not forgotten...I fixed it for ya.

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                • How about this Ace is better then both of those. Only good players have nf somes shitters have Luna but in the end just get good.

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                  • You could: - Play comp and get the weapon; or - buy a PC where they aren't more of an issue.

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                    • Edited by StrictlyTy: 1/27/2019 8:09:30 AM
                      Random caps dont make your argument any stronger. Edit. Caps fixed. Post looks a lot better. Nice work.

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