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Edited by DeZevil:
11/15/2019 1:07:06 AM
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That's precisely my point. The Pinnacles in question doesn't require a specific playstyle. You just pull the trigger. Short of getting one-banged by special weapons or heavies, nothing can match the damage output of a buffed Recluse. Even the LMGs can barely keep up with the damn thing and we're talking heavies getting owned by a primary...
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No, but they all have/had counters. But hey, you got your way, they're nerfing it. So celebrate watering down weapons and killing the drive to grind for a large part of the community.
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Edited by DeZevil: 11/15/2019 1:17:30 AMActually they didn't have any reliable counters. The only way to counter Recluse in a straight up fight is to stick to long-range (which few maps allow) or one-bang him, which requires special ammo or heavy. If Bungie had the brains to actually test and think about the stuff before they implement it, they wouldn't need to nerf stuff all the time. But Bungie shows time and again that they either don't know how to balance their games, or they don't want to balance it. And having imbalance in the game, particularily in the multiplayer scene, is the number one game killer. As for gun balance, every gun type should fill a specific role. Having a single weapon dominating almost every role is a problem, clear as day.
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PvP should always be an afterthought. That crowd is the sole reason many weapons have got whacked going pack to Pocket Infinity. Again, every gun has a way to counter, but since a portion of the community can't figure it out, then we get stuck losing the best weapons. Yes, every gun type has a role. Yes, there should be multi use weapons that stand out and be the go to.
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I don't think Bungie wants PvP to be an afterthought considering on how often they promote it (even if they have been a bit more quiet about it lately). As for the roles, yeah most of them has a situation they work best in. Scouts are meant for long range, Hand Cannons for short-to mid-range etc. Entering engagements with the less optimal weapon in hand should put you at a disadvantage. Sure there can be jack-of-all-trades guns that works in most engagements but doesn't master any of them. SMGs (except the 600-RPM ones) are meant for short range but Recluse dominates out to the mid range and destroys any primary at short range (including other 900-RPM SMGs, its peers). Not Forgotten is on par with the other 150-RPM hand cannons at short-to-middle range (just having that slight edge of not needing three crits to win, which isn't too crazy), but it can also compete out towards the longer ranges where it begins to outperform the 110-RPM hand cannons, which are meant for the longer HC-engagements. It still struggles at long ranges against scouts, but it's strong in a bit too wide range of engagement distances compared to its peers.
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I can't speak on NF and it's effectiveness from a personal stand point, I was barely good enough to get Luna's. Recluse can compete mid range when MoA is procced. That's kind of the point. If you're a good player, that should give you a better advantage. LH had nerfs, now...it still 3 taps, but doesn't feel very special. Randy's, decent scout, nothing special, not sure it was worth the grind. High caliber rounds would have made it awesome at long range, which would have made more people use it and gave the advantage to the ones who grinded it out. The point of bringing Randy's into the discussion is this. You make hard to obtain weapons, they need to be worth it or people aren't going to chase em or actually have a valid reason to want the quest shortened.
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Edited by DeZevil: 11/15/2019 2:41:39 AMLuna is in my opinion in a very good place right now. It's on par with the other 150-RPM hcs (maybe an edge in stability which isn't too important) in terms of TTK, but it's more forgiving as the third hit doesn't need to be a crit since Magnicfient Howl will bump the bodyshot damage enough to kill even a bit outside max damage range, while the regular hcs needs three crits. Not Forgotten is much in the same boat, it just has range enough to fight (and reliably win over) 110-RPM hcs at longer ranges. Recluse, that's the hammer on the nail and my main anguish from a statistical standpoint. It can more than compete in the middle ranges with Master of Arms. The other 900-RPM SMGs cannot, even if the roll Swashbuckler or Rampage (or Kill Clip) and have it maxed out. That's because Recluse has a solid base range and stability while the others will have to sacrifice one or the other to match something. Then we add Master of Arms to the mix which pretty much doubles the bonus of the other damage buffs while lasting as long or longer. Revoker isn't anything crazy. It's a good solid sniper but nothing that sticks out of the ordinary. Reversal of Fortune is a good-to-have perk but nothing that really affects the performance. Other snipers can roll the other perks too. Redrix, pretty much the same deal. It does its job when you use it right but not much more than that. Mountaintop is not too crazy either. It's a lot easier to utilize compared to the other break-action launchers because it shoots straight instead of in an arc, but it doesn't deal more damage than the others. Spike someone and they die, regardless if it's Mountaintop or another special ammo launcher. Randy's I'll avoid for now because most of my experience of it has been on the receiving end. I only recently decided to grind for it so I haven't used it very much yet. From a statistical view, of the Crucible pinnacles, only NF and Recluse are on the wrong side of the fence, with NF being much closer to it than Recluse.
