Let me get this straight. The forums want this for every expansion:
1. Meaningful loot tied to activities.
2. Powerful loot
3. Their gear to still be relevant and good indefinitely.
Okay. That will 100% of the time introduce power creep or make new weapons appear meaningless. Period.
So now Bungie is facing the problem and feedback that there's so much to do, so many activities in expansions, and none of it matters. Well, there are three ways to address that upon a major DLC release:
1. Nerf the previous meta every time. I hope this doesn't need explanation as to why that's a garbage idea.
2. Release weapons that are inherently more powerful in terms of stats, perks, damage, etc. in order to overshadow the previous meta. Sounds good on paper, but what about 2 expansions down the road? 3? Our power would grow without bounds to the point where the gsme would have to be designed around that power. How do we know that? The disaster that was Reckoning. I for one do not want the release version of Reckoning to be present throughout the entire game.
3. Put a infusion cap on weapons. This will bring value to new weapons immediately without diminishing the effectiveness of our previous weapons in non-endgame activities. Right now, no new SMG on console will be considered by the majority of players unless it's better than Recluse. No shotgun was considered at all over Ikelos until Threat Level was released. Heck. The majority of hand cannons users stuck to Midnight Coup all the way to Black Armory, where Threat Level gave competition for the slot. That's the trend. Players did not have a reason to hunt for loot at all since outliers we're left uncapped. Put a cap on those weapons and now all of a sudden, new weapons have a purpose. They have value. If these new weapons are at least good and are plentiful, this is the best option.
Pick which option you want. But the best is definitely 3.
English
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Edited by roadrage424: 3/2/2020 4:47:59 AMUmmm I still use Ikelos shotty. I still use all 3 affinity types of Sins Of the Past. But at the same time, I use God Rolls of Paradox, Furnace, Hammerhead, Avalanche, Bygones, Tatara's Gaze, Trophy Hunter, etc. The problem is the ease of obtaining God weapons. Add a drop rate % to every perk w that % being specific to that weapon. Example: Vorpal Weapon would be God tier on snipers and linear fusions. Make that perk have a .5% chance to drop...but then give that perk to a Valakadyn w a drop chance of 40%. The only places that perk will be good for Val are the 1st and 4th plates at Calus and Dogs in Leviathan. ... revamping RNG is a must in this game. And RNG doesnt only mean obtaining the drop. It should also mean perk % as well. I say give the player all the weapons!! Just dont make God Rolls easy. Rt now they are too easy to get.
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Edited by Wes: 3/2/2020 4:53:51 AMA lot of people would disagree with you. I still don't have my Spare Rations after hundreds of Reckoning runs and close to 50 Infamy resets. I had to farm the Obelisk to get my Bygones after 50 Infamy resets of Gambit. I've done several hundred runs of The Hollowed Layer and eventually just settled on a 3/5 Mindbender's. My list goes on. I have a lot of hours in this game and not a lot of God rolls to show for it. If that's not your experience, I'm both happy for you and envious. Edit: And the fact that you still use those proves my point. They're so old, but since they're outliers in terms of performance they're gonna be better than (or at least competitive when compared to) any new content Bungie releases.
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A "Touche" is in order here. You not getting God Rolls and I get them.... while i do feel your pain, it also took me 115 original EP runs (before cheeses and we needed at least 7 players to run EVERY encounter for each run....yup! Hard way!!) to get the Ikelos shotty. That's 7 x 115 ....805 EP encounters before I got it. I'm all for players getting the guns, I just think rolls should have % drop rate to them. Apparently Spare Rations has an atrocious drop % rt now. I'd say give them the HC....but the rolls dont have to be God tier. I feel your pain on the RNG drops. I really do.
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I mean, in a perfect world, better perks would be tied to harder activities. But then you get all sorts of other problems from that. Every person has a different experience with RNG, so it's hard to pin down one, singular solution.
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please refrain from using the word "power creep" if you have no idea what it is. what bungie calls power creep is not actually power creep. they just say it in hopes that idiots will buy it with out thinking about it. i can tell you what this actually is.... its a cost saving creep. they dont want to spend the resources to expand on ideas or actualy address the loot issue properly.
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Edited by Wes: 3/2/2020 4:43:07 AMPower creep is a situation where new content introduces weapons and gear (in this case) slowly overtakes the previous. That's what it means. I used it correctly. If the next seasonal gear's value is defined by it's effectiveness/power, it would ONLY have value if it meta or exceeded the power/effectiveness of the previous season's outliers. Guess what that introduces? Power creep. Fact. If you're salty, fine. Be salty. But don't come in here with a "You don't know what you're talking about" attitude. Maybe there are alternative drivers from Bungie's side? I don't know. But literally every other MMO on the planet does a similar tactic because it effectively prevents power creep and adds value to future gear. Edit: And if this is done right, it won't save them money. It'll allow them to spend resources on making MORE weapons with MORE value. So this IS the proper way to deal with one of the (there are many) loot issues within this game.
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ok in 4 years have fun with your reskined spare rations and call it "new" same weapon archetypes that do the same things with no improvements and variation. you want to use only 3 types of handcannon? go for it have at it. never mind adding a new archetype. enjoy paying for the same shit for years on end. then wonder why they reskin things. on top of, there is no power creep. rampage? not power creep if it applied to all content. your better devils with killclip is the same as my spare rations with kill clip, where is the power creep?
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1. Your first few lines are pure speculation and have been addressed in my edit. Who says they're just gonna reskin everything? They could just as easily spend the resources saved from not maintaining old content into brand new gear. Think objectively and less like a salty 12 year old please. You don't trust them? Fine. Fair. Say that. But this isn't a discussion about that at all. 2. Where is the power creep? It happened in Reckoning. We were so powerful we had to be knocked off the bridge to die. We had to have enemies on all sides engaging us from all distances while we were confined to a small area in order to die. And look at Recluse. Recluse was so powerful each and every future SMG the Bungie released was instantly dismantled until Recluse was nerfed. Even now, the majority of SMG users only use Recluse. So how would a future SMG ever have value over that? It would have to be MORE powerful. And then what about the one after that? It would also have to be MORE powerful. That's power creep. That's where it is. It is right down the line. If Bungie were to add value to weapons right now, it would be with power. It would HAVE to be enough power to incentivives players to not just infuse the previous season's meta. And then if they wanted the next season's gear to have value, they'd have to repeat that process. Power creep by definition. Or, they could add value to future content by expanding the endgame activities it can be used in. That doesn't introduce power creep and it adds value to all seasonal loot.
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Dude. The characters have power deterioration now to the point it’s a joke. Get killed by a sniper in a “750” strike when you are 980+. Ever since the numbers went up - I feel a lot weaker in events. Bungie just juiced the enemies and doubled their numbers to boot. Power creep? Give me an auto load mod more like it
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Well power advantages are capped at 50 or so light higher than the enemies. Overwise you'd be immune to enemies in core playlists. How are they supposed to bring value and power to loot in core playlists while also balancing "difficulty vs reward" if we're immune to the enemies in core playlsits? C'mon now.
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Well. That’s the “theory”. Except try running the forges now. They are as hard as when we were underleveled in year 1. The boss in them is a crap shoot now to even kill, when they used to go down easily. We are more vulnerable and less powerful in year 3 than in year 1. They just added horde modes to make the insanity more obvious
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I don't know about that man. The forges are a joke. They're definitely easier than when we were underpowered, and our power advantages are capped at 50 power over. So as far as I've experienced, it's consistent with my last post. Heck. The first boss can be melted in less than 30 seconds.
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Glad you think so. With randoms it’s a 70-30 win lose. Sometimes worse. Used to kill boss in 30 seconds in years 2. Now it’s the last 10 seconds, if that. We lost power. We are weaker. And they keep taking it away so players like Datto can tell us how to “do it”
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This game is all about the streamers and the ebay shareplayers
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We didn't lose any damage against bosses. We didn't lose any advantages of light. The primary method of melting the bosses hasn't been nerfed. None of it at all. The facts say our guns didn't get weaker. A lot of our damaging supers got buffed as well. I'm sorry blues are making forges difficult, but that's not the game. That's blues being blues.
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We lost. Big time. It’s so obvious it stinks Powerful guardians - what a joke that has become
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And yet not a single update indicates a blatant nerf to any of the things that affect forges or light advantages...
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It’s not just the forges. That’s just an easy example Really. Mr powerful here.