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originally posted in: IMO Destiny has biased RNG
Edited by puppyk1sses: 1/7/2015 4:58:29 PM
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Oh dear... What did I just read? It's purely RNG bro. For every exotic weapon you get, there's a 4.3% chance it's the gun you want. That's 1/23. If you were to roll a 23-sided dice, I don't know, 30 times for example... 30 exotic drops that would be... You think every number is gonna hit? God no. 50 rolls? Probably not. So let's say Gjallarhorn is the #7 on your 23-sided dice. How many rolls could you theoretically go without the #7 landing? An absolute f#@ck ton. It's statistics. People come up with some pretty crazy theories to try to explain the unexplainable!
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  • You are absolutely wrong about that. If the odds are 1/23, you will get (on average) that drop once every 23 times. It's a statistical concept known as regression to the mean. Yes, it could be worse, but it could be better too. The average will always come out to 1/23 (if those are in fact the odds). Saying "It's statistics" when you obviously do not know that much about statistics is a brash move.

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  • Edited by puppyk1sses: 1/8/2015 4:41:50 PM
    Ehh I understand just fine. For every guy that has a hard time getting Gjallarhorn, there's someone that gets multiple copies. You could easily go 50 rolls of the dice without your number coming up, but you could also have it come up multiple times in half those rolls.

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  • Don't confuse statistics with probabilities. If you have a 1/23 chance of rolling an exotic, you always have that same chance for each roll. The result of one throw has no influence on the outcome of future rolls. If you get an exotic drop, you have a 1/23 chance of getting Gjallahorn. On your next exotic drop, you still have a 1/23 chance of getting Gjallahorn. They don't stack so therefore can never actually average out.

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  • Incorrect. A coin has a 50/50 chance of being either heads or tails. Yes, you could flip it 1000 times and it could potentially be heads 1000 times, but if you flipped that coin out into infinity, you would eventually get a near equal amount of tails. Ultimately, no matter how you try to spin it, the odds of getting heads is only 50%. Again, it's a statistical concept known as regression to the mean. Yes, our sample size is much smaller, but the theory still holds on some level. In other words, you could expect to get a "heads" result once every 2 throws, and (bringing it back to our previous example), you could expect to get a gjallahorn once every 23 exotics (assuming those figures the OP threw out are correct).

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  • Now, when you get ready to flip the coin the chances are 50-50. When you get ready to flip the coin again, chances are still 50/50. The result of one throw in no way influences the outcome of the next throw. This is what is meant by the chances of the coin being heads or tails is 50-50. 50-50 does NOT mean that in ten throws 5 will always be heads and 5 will always be tails. So, why should a million throws be more nearly half one side and half the other? This is simply a matter of percentages. If the ten throws gives you 7-3 than it looks like 70% of the throws were one side and 30% the other side. But in a million throws a difference of only four more of one than the other is a lot less % difference than in ten throws.

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  • Yes, what you just described is exactly what I've been saying. We're getting on the same page now. So to bring what you just said back to the exotics example (using the g-horn specifically): You got your first g-horn after you got 34 other exotics. At first glance, the chance is 1/35 or ~3%. Now your second g-horn you got after 23 exotics. The new probability is ((35+23)/2) or 1/29 or ~3.4%. Finally, your third g-horn you got just 11 exotics later. You newest odds are ((35+23+11)/3) or 1/23 or ~4.3%. Just like the OP stated. I know you probably didn't seriously investigate the example above, but what I'm trying to highlight is that after enough exotics have dropped, any person in this game will have an average of 1 ghorn for every 23 exotic drops. Sure, maybe your first one takes longer, like 35 drops. Your second one might only take 11 though. So the OP just assuming that 1/23 odds means that you won't get a gjallahorn for 50+ is erroneous. Your odds are 1/23 period. I was only trying to point out that the OP's post is absolutely not proof that a Bungie Skinner Box algorithm doesn't exist. His post means nothing because it's incorrect.

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  • Two sides. Same coin.

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  • Its actually a higher percentage. 5 exotic weapons are only obtainable through bounties. There are currently 22 obtainable exotic weapons. Not sure were your getting 23. 20 are obtainable on Xbox. The Vex will only drop during hard VOG so exclude that. So on the Xbox you have actually have a 7.1% chance per exotic weapon on random drops. On the PS you have a 6.3% chance due to the 2 exclusive weapons.

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  • Edited by CapnAverage: 1/7/2015 5:32:13 PM
    Assuming you were lucky enough to have a 100% chance of a legendary weapon drop every time you open a chest (lol), and assuming that the loot table for legendary weapons contains 23 items each of which have an equal probability of occurring on each roll, you'd have a ~74% chance of getting a Gjallahorn after 30 rolls. 50 rolls of Rahool's uncharacteristically fair die would only net you a ~90% chance of getting it. Generally, the probability of getting the item you want here is p = 1 - (22/23)^n where n is the number of chests that you've popped. And the number of chests required to 100% guarantee the gun you want? Infinity. Damn you statistics. DAMN YOU. :)

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  • Thats the naked theory, but Iam pretty sure that Bungie can and is influencing the drops. For example I got 90% of my exotics after after the DLC that were DLC bound, we got Omnigul Nightfall two times out of 4 nightfalls... is that really coincidence? I think not. Even more when up until the DLC came all the Nightfalls were in a defined order.

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  • Edited by ShadowMac: 1/7/2015 5:08:17 PM
    math and probability, bro. Right on! Even game conspiracy theorists have as hard a time with it as real life ones....lolz A Neil degrasse Tyson meme saying "Science b!tch" would be perfect here....

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  • 1
    Just because pure-RNG can be used to provide a reason for it, doesn't mean that's it. Tell me this; what benefits do Bungie get in making it pure-RNG over weighted-RNG? Have you also ever seen a quote from any Bungie rep. that says it's pure-RNG? I've looked everywhere and can't find a single saying it's even some degree of RNG.

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