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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by ---: 1/7/2015 10:45:16 PM
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IMO Destiny has biased RNG

Take these three situations: 1. People have all their desired loot. They play solely because they enjoy the game 2. People want certain loot. They also play because they enjoy the game but also because they want the elusive item(s) 3. People aren't bothered about loot They play when they can be bothered and have no compulsion to get loot. Bungie want to maximise peoples' playing hours, this is what they're heavily KPId on from Activision. People at 1. will drop to 2. when new DLC drops. They want to move people from 3. to 2. and keep them there (often why new raid players or casuals will drop coveted exotics/raid gear - this aims to give them the incentive, hoping that they'll enjoy the game more and put in more hours). This is likely the category where players play the most as there's a compulsion to play alongside enjoyment. The best way to do this; weight the RNG in Bungie's favour to maximise playing hours. They could make a fixed-weight-RNG system for all players across the game but the cons outweigh the pros. The most optimum way for Bungie to do this is to weight the RNG specific to each players' predicted desired loot. There are just too many instances of players not getting that [b]drop[/b] they want. Whether it be the Vex, Ghorn, Red Death, Hawkmoon or the final piece of Raid gear. Think of this; if a gambling house could rig the odds in Blackjack, they would and have - that's why legislation prevents that. They have a monetary gain in doing so. Bungie have the ability to rig the odds on our drops in their favour and their gain is monetary (KPIs by Activision). They can easily predict what everyone's most desired gear is through this very simple mechanism (NB. Odds provides are for example only. Too many people have been questioning legitimacy of my hypothesis because of that!): 1. BING! player has weight-RNGd an exotic. Let's work out what to drop... 2. what are the %s of weapon types that the player has equipped during gameplay? RL=60% AR=10% HC=10% Sniper=5% LMG= 5% Scout=5% FR = 2.5% Shotgun = 2.5% Okay, now we know what they have equipped most of the time. 3. What exotic weapons don't they have? Ghorn Truth Red Death Hawkmoon Mida 4. Out of all the people that have these guns, what is the average % of time that they have them equipped? Ghorn = 70% Truth = 5% Red Death= 15% Hawkmoon = 20% Mida = 5% 5. Okay. So we can see that he has RLs equipped most of the time and that Ghorn is the most popular exotic RL for those that have it. Therefore we can make the logical assumption that this is his most desired gun (as he doesn't seem a big HC player as he splits his primary time with ARs and so he probably doesn't want RD or Hawk) 6. Now we know this, we don't want him to get his most desired gun as that'll likely reduce playing-time (as we know from the gambler's theory of 'it's always the next one') so what we'll do is reduce his percentage of getting the Ghorn in this drop and increase that of RD or Hawkmoon. 7. Therefore the % on this drop are: Ghorn = 1%, RD = 10%, Hawkmoon = 10% and every other exotic at an equal percentage (including those he currently has - this is why when you get a gun, you may see it drop more frequently) 8. SPIN THE WHEEL!!!! 9. Outcome = not Ghorn *claps arise in Bungie HQ* "well done guys, he's gonna keep chasing this gun" They have the capabilities to create this algorithm (which I could knock out in excel in 30 mins if I had all the info - which they do) which assesses any individual player's most desired guns. This then reduces said gun's drop % at that drop. The frequency at which this would be refreshed is anyone's guess; every time you log on, daily, every Tuesday or with every patch. I really don't know. Facts: • Bungie are already tracking all our stats - seen in app and Destiny DB - so therefore they must come from some centralised Database at Bungie. • Implementing the results in to coding refreshes wouldn't take much processing power. • Results of doing this is advantageous to them over a pure or even fixed-weighted RNG system Why on Earth wouldn't they do that? Yes I'm being skeptical but from a solely business POV this makes perfect sense. If I'm wrong and it's not set-up like this; Bungie, Deej or whoever is listening - DM me, I'll sort this out fo'ya'll. Edit: Apologies for the massive edit. I originally wrote it this morning, I realised it wasn't articulated very well and also missed out key points that I had to answer a fair few times to people. Original post has been quoted somewhere in comments for those that want to search. Edit: When replying saying that I'm wrong, can you please tell me [b]why[/b] other than simply stating something like "it's RNG, everything that you're experiencing are the effects of random events". Yes I'm aware complete randomness can cause this - it can be used to describe a multitude of things.
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  • thaaats why I have no Ghorn but I have had 4 thunder lords drop I really hope this isn't true

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  • I use hand canons 99% of the time... 2 hawkmoon 3 thorns 3 TLW 2 fate bringer

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    • TLDR

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      • I think OP may be onto something, though calling it a biased RNG might not be entirely accurate. While I cannot speak to the specifics of how it works, I can assure everyone that Destiny is very much NOT RNG based. It uses a system called Private Loot Streaming or PLS, and from what I understand it's similar to what OP is describing. I do know that the game absolutely keeps track of what it "thinks you need" (not necessarily to make you happy, but to keep you playing) and adjusts drop probabilities accordingly. This is why Atheon tends to drop the multiple Mythoclasts for people that already have it. For one reason or another, their account has a very high probability to drop the Mythoclast while others have completed the hard raid 25 + times and may actually never get it no matter how many times they play. Ahem, "RNGesus" ( > . < ) I really think you may be onto something with your theory on the algo, although I don't think it's quite as smart or intuitive as you're theorizing. It's not really that hard to calculate some of the data profiles needed if it's based on a simple set of rules. Basically it'd be nothing more than assigning a "score" to a few parameters based on statistics they already track. Point being, for those saying it would take massive computing power, it's simply not true. There's a lot going on behind the scenes in this loot system and they've spoken about it before. This reddit thread goes into detail and has some links where Bungie talks about it. http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2hgkcx/rng_vs_private_loot_stream/

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        • The horror.... The horror.....

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        • Edited by Smith5084: 1/8/2015 1:26:58 PM
          It's definitely not 100% random... The odds that I would have 6 Icebreakers drop but no Ghorns, while my friend has had 5 Ghorns drop since release, but no Icebreakers are astronomical in a truly randomized system. There are too many people out there who seem to have similar stories... Pretty much everyone has 1 or 2 weapons that always seem to elude them. It seems to me that once you have a weapon, you are more likely to have it drop again.

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          • So let's say I don't use something like the Vex Mythoclast or a fusion rifle during a raid. Does that increase my chances of getting it?

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          • I love theories like this, fun to think about it.

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          • i think there is an algorithm, not actual rng. but no one can confirm either so its an opinion. only bungie devs can say.

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          • Edited by Near Haven: 1/8/2015 1:33:30 PM
            I don't think so bro... I got all my raid gear in 3 Crota runs. That wouldn't happen in your theory. Also got a ghorn, black hammer, light of the abyss, and ice breaker in one week (overlap by a day for the previous raid drop). I do level up new guns that drop for me, but even to me the above is an abundance of stuff.

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            • I figured out you were right along time ago.... I just want to play crucible....so much time wasted chasing galahorn....but it's really made me mad at the game....that's why I'm not playing till tuesday

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            • HUGE problem with this theory, Bungie does not want to maximize our playing hours as there are no micro transactions. So Bungie's profits actually decrease with our increased play time. Bungie just wants us to play enough to justify buying more dlc.

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              • Genuinely think your onto something here because every time I do the raid / Nf I get VOC or some other legendary scout rifles Thing is I main a SR the whole time Next time I Do VOG I will be equipping a fusion rifle and a auto riffle to see if i can get the atheons epilogue and the vex the only guns eluding me

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              • Well said, though based off my drops I feel as though this may be already in place to a degree. I used fatebringer and High Fixer forever, then got tlw and thorn and had to wait through several thorn bounties and tlw drops before I got a hawkmoon. This also happened with Ghorn, used hezen forever, got truth and used it a bit, then got some other RLs and finally got a ghorn drop from VoG, then got another one the same week in nightfall. When I was ranking dead orbit and maining VoC for everything, I constantly got crypt dwellers from dead orbit packages, constantly got scouts from crucible and strikes until nightfall dropped mida for me. To me it doesn't necessarily seem biased, though not entirely weighted either. I say this mainly due to the fact I get drops more along the lines of what I use consistently and actually am interested in than my friends who use a various assortments of weapons don't use the same one over and over for long periods of time only to receive 'crappy drops'. I think that the game is somewhat weighted as well as influenced by the amount of time/consistency of your gameplay time in regards to your drops. There are people I play with on occasion, they get on once or twice a week, play an hour or two and don't touch the game for a week only to return and get some incredible drop they wanted as if being influenced to continue playing or play longer by being given a 'treat'.

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              • I never used LMGs until I got Thunderlord last week, now I have barely used a rocket launcher (which I used since I started playing destiny). Never used autorifles then Hardlight dropped in the Iron Banner. Never used shotguns until nightfall dropped a legendary shotgun for me. Maybe you're right, maybe it's coincidence.

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              • Go find some sunlight. It's a game. If people put as much effort into work as video games you might be rich....

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                • I was 1 then i went to 3. Then dlc came out and im still 3 because this game sucks once u get everything u want. Dont let it happen because you will quit within a week. If you hit the lottery you're going to quit your job the same day, so in fact you need to thank bungie for helping you be a slave to a game with 2 days worth of content and allowing you to keep coming back for your drug every week even though you realize the game is rigged and short. You -blam!-ing crackhead.

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                  • So if I was after Hawkmoon or Gjallarhorn what would you advice?

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                    • GREAT! Always thought something was strange. Keep getting the same -blam!-ing legendaries I already have a never the one I would like. Now know why

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                    • As noone uses pulse rifles (I assume) Wouldnt that mean based from your theory that the praedyths time piece would still be a rare but more likely drop?

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                    • I'm in category #3

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                    • I agree that it is playstyle biased and not random at all.

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                    • This is the first thread where I couldn't find a hate/troll comment. Keep up the good work. I have only really used rocket launchers since I started this game and I never got any sort of exotic machine gun. If the RNG is bias at all, it would definitely be towards new players or players that rarely play.

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                      • Finally! Someone who gets it!

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                        • I have all guns but hawkmoon. Monte carlo. 4th horseman. (All ps exclusive.) Why can't I get any of them.

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                          • Do I get points for knowing Zlatan? [spoiler]Ibracadabra[/spoiler]

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