[quote]Are the numbers low cuz of CBMM or because PVP hasn’t had any updates in literally years? Are the numbers low cuz of CBMM or because PVP hasn’t had any updates in literally years?[/quote] All of the above. Cbmm started the decline, add in the ongoing shotgun issues, then stasis. The later 2 are being fixed. But, special weapon issues have always been there. However when sbmm was the defacto at least the average player was having fun and fair matches. So the numbers were still higher then. [quote]Is it CBMM that is making top players face casual players? Or is it the fact PvP has been so neglected by Bungie that the only people still playing are sweats, so they’re the only ones you’re going to match up against[/quote] You're not really wrong here. But, it's kind of "all of the above" that has driven the casual players out. So the true answer for pvp is to bring the population back. To do that the game needs to be more fun for the average player who is the largest pool.