[quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.

[quote][quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.[/quote] Because they didn't 😂 The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content to play and you didn't have to grind 40 strikes to get seasonal challenges done. In terms of population, the highest the population gets is the first 3 months after a new DLC release and then everyone disappears because the people who no life this game are so hilariously unbearable that people would rather go play other games when the PvE stuff dries up.

[quote][quote][quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.[/quote] Because they didn't 😂 The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content to play and you didn't have to grind 40 strikes to get seasonal challenges done. In terms of population, the highest the population gets is the first 3 months after a new DLC release and then everyone disappears because the people who no life this game are so hilariously unbearable that people would rather go play other games when the PvE stuff dries up.[/quote] Forsaken and beyond light were cbmm those times were the best times. Shadowkeep was awful and had a huge dip in pvp population. AGAIN WE ARE TALKING PVP not pve the casual player base is always going to dip out when the pve content dries up. You seem to think we are talking overall population when we are only talking pvp. I don’t know if you have the ability to stay on topic.

[quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.[/quote] Because they didn't 😂 The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content to play and you didn't have to grind 40 strikes to get seasonal challenges done. In terms of population, the highest the population gets is the first 3 months after a new DLC release and then everyone disappears because the people who no life this game are so hilariously unbearable that people would rather go play other games when the PvE stuff dries up.[/quote] Forsaken and beyond light were cbmm those times were the best times. Shadowkeep was awful and had a huge dip in pvp population. AGAIN WE ARE TALKING PVP not pve the casual player base is always going to dip out when the pve content dries up. You seem to think we are talking overall population when we are only talking pvp. I don’t know if you have the ability to stay on topic.[/quote] This game is more than 90% PvE. That's like saying "let's talk about cars, but ONLY the seat belts and radio" like the engine of the car doesn't matter lol. PvP was fine during Shadowkeep. The people who left were sweats throwing temper tantrums, everybody else was having a good time. The PvP population wasn't that much lower, it was a PvE heavy update, and since most people play this game for PvE (which makes sense since it's a PvE focused game), they went into crucible less often. Now most of those sweats don't play anymore anyway, so listening to them and making PvP less accessible to new players was a GREAT idea /sarcasm.

[quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.[/quote] Because they didn't 😂 The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content to play and you didn't have to grind 40 strikes to get seasonal challenges done. In terms of population, the highest the population gets is the first 3 months after a new DLC release and then everyone disappears because the people who no life this game are so hilariously unbearable that people would rather go play other games when the PvE stuff dries up.[/quote] Forsaken and beyond light were cbmm those times were the best times. Shadowkeep was awful and had a huge dip in pvp population. AGAIN WE ARE TALKING PVP not pve the casual player base is always going to dip out when the pve content dries up. You seem to think we are talking overall population when we are only talking pvp. I don’t know if you have the ability to stay on topic.[/quote] This game is more than 90% PvE. That's like saying "let's talk about cars, but ONLY the seat belts and radio" like the engine of the car doesn't matter lol. PvP was fine during Shadowkeep. The people who left were sweats throwing temper tantrums, everybody else was having a good time. The PvP population wasn't that much lower, it was a PvE heavy update, and since most people play this game for PvE (which makes sense since it's a PvE focused game), they went into crucible less often. Now most of those sweats don't play anymore anyway, so listening to them and making PvP less accessible to new players was a GREAT idea /sarcasm.[/quote] Listening to the casuals who don’t play pvp like the dedicated pvp players is the problem my friend if u don’t get that something is wrong with you

[quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.[/quote] Because they didn't 😂 The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content to play and you didn't have to grind 40 strikes to get seasonal challenges done. In terms of population, the highest the population gets is the first 3 months after a new DLC release and then everyone disappears because the people who no life this game are so hilariously unbearable that people would rather go play other games when the PvE stuff dries up.[/quote] Forsaken and beyond light were cbmm those times were the best times. Shadowkeep was awful and had a huge dip in pvp population. AGAIN WE ARE TALKING PVP not pve the casual player base is always going to dip out when the pve content dries up. You seem to think we are talking overall population when we are only talking pvp. I don’t know if you have the ability to stay on topic.[/quote] This game is more than 90% PvE. That's like saying "let's talk about cars, but ONLY the seat belts and radio" like the engine of the car doesn't matter lol. PvP was fine during Shadowkeep. The people who left were sweats throwing temper tantrums, everybody else was having a good time. Now most of those sweats don't play anymore anyway, so listening to them and making PvP less accessible to new players was a GREAT idea /sarcasm.[/quote] Yes we are only talking about 10% of the game. Let’s talk about the radio I don’t need a new engine. thank you for finally getting it. PvP wasn’t fine in shadowkeep and the pvp population had a heavy dip. If it was fine they would have left sbmm. After they reintroduced cbmm the pvp population came back up and is now only dipping again because of sbmm.

[quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.[/quote] Because they didn't 😂 The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content to play and you didn't have to grind 40 strikes to get seasonal challenges done. In terms of population, the highest the population gets is the first 3 months after a new DLC release and then everyone disappears because the people who no life this game are so hilariously unbearable that people would rather go play other games when the PvE stuff dries up.[/quote] Forsaken and beyond light were cbmm those times were the best times. Shadowkeep was awful and had a huge dip in pvp population. AGAIN WE ARE TALKING PVP not pve the casual player base is always going to dip out when the pve content dries up. You seem to think we are talking overall population when we are only talking pvp. I don’t know if you have the ability to stay on topic.[/quote] This game is more than 90% PvE. That's like saying "let's talk about cars, but ONLY the seat belts and radio" like the engine of the car doesn't matter lol. PvP was fine during Shadowkeep. The people who left were sweats throwing temper tantrums, everybody else was having a good time. Now most of those sweats don't play anymore anyway, so listening to them and making PvP less accessible to new players was a GREAT idea /sarcasm.[/quote] Yes we are only talking about 10% of the game. Let’s talk about the radio I don’t need a new engine. thank you for finally getting it. PvP wasn’t fine in shadowkeep and the pvp population had a heavy dip. If it was fine they would have left sbmm. After they reintroduced cbmm the pvp population came back up and is now only dipping again because of sbmm.[/quote] Players off playing the other 90% of the game and you don't want to factor that into why some people played PvP less often. Excellent. Beyond Light was a short DLC and was finished up in like 2 days, and the seal was time gated so you could only do it a few hours every week. So yeah, less to do, more people going back to PvP. Easy.

[quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]Sbmm and ftbmm is what killed the population. Same thing happened in shadowkeep and they walked it back because the population dipped. They implemented sbmm again to try to help new player retention when they teamed with epic games. It didn’t work and new players didn’t stay. Then the dedicated pvp players started leaving. The casuals didn’t show up like they said they would and here we are.[/quote] New players didn't stay with CBMM either. The game has been slowly losing players for years, and not all of those years were SBMM or FTBMM. It's revisionist history to think that that SBMM is the cause of all this game's problems when the terrible attitude of the dedicated player base, lack of dedicated servers, and focus on longer grinds and bullet sponge enemies are literally the largest complaints. CBMM doesn't fix PvP lag. It didn't fix it before and it won't fix it now.[/quote] How can you say new players didn’t stay with cbmm? Both times sbmm has been implemented to this game the pvp population has rapidly fallen off. The healthiest times in pvp in this game have been cbmm. We aren’t talking about pve retention here half of your statement is inconsequential. Dedicated servers would help connection issues but again that’s not what we are talking about. Cbmm doesn’t help with console desync. It does help with connection and load times though. You just wouldn’t know that being at your skill.[/quote] Because they didn't 😂 The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content to play and you didn't have to grind 40 strikes to get seasonal challenges done. In terms of population, the highest the population gets is the first 3 months after a new DLC release and then everyone disappears because the people who no life this game are so hilariously unbearable that people would rather go play other games when the PvE stuff dries up.[/quote] Forsaken and beyond light were cbmm those times were the best times. Shadowkeep was awful and had a huge dip in pvp population. AGAIN WE ARE TALKING PVP not pve the casual player base is always going to dip out when the pve content dries up. You seem to think we are talking overall population when we are only talking pvp. I don’t know if you have the ability to stay on topic.[/quote] This game is more than 90% PvE. That's like saying "let's talk about cars, but ONLY the seat belts and radio" like the engine of the car doesn't matter lol. PvP was fine during Shadowkeep. The people who left were sweats throwing temper tantrums, everybody else was having a good time. Now most of those sweats don't play anymore anyway, so listening to them and making PvP less accessible to new players was a GREAT idea /sarcasm.[/quote] Yes we are only talking about 10% of the game. Let’s talk about the radio I don’t need a new engine. thank you for finally getting it. PvP wasn’t fine in shadowkeep and the pvp population had a heavy dip. If it was fine they would have left sbmm. After they reintroduced cbmm the pvp population came back up and is now only dipping again because of sbmm.[/quote] Players off playing the other 90% of the game and you don't want to factor that into why some people played PvP less often. Excellent. Beyond Light was a short DLC and was finished up in like 2 days, and the seal was time gated so you could only do it a few hours every week. So yeah, less to do, more people going back to PvP. Easy.[/quote] Shadowkeep was much smaller than beyond light. There is literally no reason to talk to you. You can’t even remotely stay in topic. Your entire point of view is cope. Like you actually think that more people will play pvp because the pve content is shallow? Most pve players just don’t even play pvp and you think they are gonna just jump in to pvp because their content is shallow? Why was the pvp population so much smaller in shadowkeep if they would have just played pvp then?

Lol, okay.

[quote]Lol, okay.[/quote] “The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content.” “Beyond Light was a short DLC and was finished up in like 2 days, and the seal was time gated so you could only do it a few hours every week. So yeah, less to do, more people going back to PvP.” Yeah, you can see yourself out now after contradicting yourself.

[quote][quote]Lol, okay.[/quote] “The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content.” “Beyond Light was a short DLC and was finished up in like 2 days, and the seal was time gated so you could only do it a few hours every week. So yeah, less to do, more people going back to PvP.” Yeah, you can see yourself out now after contradicting yourself.[/quote] Yeah, talking about 3 DLCs and you're trying to scope in on just one of them. That's the issue with your argument, you won't take a large view of the game. You think that everything is super specific when it's not lol.

[quote][quote][quote]Lol, okay.[/quote] “The healthiest this game ever was was Forsaken/Shadowkeep/Beyond Light which was a healthy mix of both, but there was also a crap ton of content.” “Beyond Light was a short DLC and was finished up in like 2 days, and the seal was time gated so you could only do it a few hours every week. So yeah, less to do, more people going back to PvP.” Yeah, you can see yourself out now after contradicting yourself.[/quote] Yeah, talking about 3 DLCs and you're trying to scope in on just one of them. That's the issue with your argument, you won't take a large view of the game. You think that everything is super specific when it's not lol.[/quote] It’s your words not mine man. You said there was a crap ton of content and now are walking it back. Say what you mean and mean what you say my guy.

I'm talking about 3 DLCs, not just one of them. Beyond Light was comparatively short compared to Forsaken and Shadowkeep.

All of those DLC were short. This is destiny every DLC has a playtime of a few hours. Forsaken wasnt massive, the main PvE campaign was short. Shadow Keep was smaller than Beyond Light and both were still very short. Beyond Light had more to do after the campaign given stasis. Shadow keep only had weapons which werent all that great and forsaken had dreaming city (which was basically just blind well and ascendant chanllenges) Titles and triumph seals are a useless argument due to them not really being a focus for casual players. No casual is grinding Last Wish for Rivensbane. No casual is grinding Crota for SwordBearer. No casual is doing every GM a season for Conquerer. No casual is sweating Trials of Osiris for Flawless. For seasonal content to keep players going after the campaign Forsaken was mid, Shadow Keep was mid and Beyond Light was bad. PvP wise for the meta. Forsaken and Shadow Keep had pinnacle PvP weapons like Recluse, Mountaintop and Revoker which all played a part in the drops of casuals due to the overwhelming strength of those weapons which were not obtainable for casuals. Beyond Light introduced stasis which did take over PvP but was available to anyone who had the DLC making things a lot more balanced. Beyond Light also suffered due to the delay of Witch Queen which made Season of the Lost a 6 month season. If we look at matchmaking theres a more obvious trend with a dip in players to the introductions of SBMM which is normally welcomed at first but then hated a couple weeks in due to the constant need to use the meta and always try hard. Forsaken and Beyond Light kept players longer overall than Shadow Keep and given they all had little content overall it can only be down to the matchmaking. Also Beyond Light PvP wise did better than Shadow Keep and Beyond Light sunset large amounts of gear and put off lots of players because of it. SBMM is a bad idea and only benefits players near the bottom of the skill range as they get games easier than those at the very bottom and at the very top and they also have access to use a wider variety of gear. The higher in the skill brackets you go the more restrictive builds and weapons are which pushes away higher end players and even the upper end of the average players.

[quote]All of those DLC were short. This is destiny every DLC has a playtime of a few hours. Forsaken wasnt massive, the main PvE campaign was short. Shadow Keep was smaller than Beyond Light and both were still very short. Beyond Light had more to do after the campaign given stasis. Shadow keep only had weapons which werent all that great and forsaken had dreaming city (which was basically just blind well and ascendant chanllenges) Titles and triumph seals are a useless argument due to them not really being a focus for casual players. No casual is grinding Last Wish for Rivensbane. No casual is grinding Crota for SwordBearer. No casual is doing every GM a season for Conquerer. No casual is sweating Trials of Osiris for Flawless. For seasonal content to keep players going after the campaign Forsaken was mid, Shadow Keep was mid and Beyond Light was bad. PvP wise for the meta. Forsaken and Shadow Keep had pinnacle PvP weapons like Recluse, Mountaintop and Revoker which all played a part in the drops of casuals due to the overwhelming strength of those weapons which were not obtainable for casuals. Beyond Light introduced stasis which did take over PvP but was available to anyone who had the DLC making things a lot more balanced. Beyond Light also suffered due to the delay of Witch Queen which made Season of the Lost a 6 month season. If we look at matchmaking theres a more obvious trend with a dip in players to the introductions of SBMM which is normally welcomed at first but then hated a couple weeks in due to the constant need to use the meta and always try hard. Forsaken and Beyond Light kept players longer overall than Shadow Keep and given they all had little content overall it can only be down to the matchmaking. Also Beyond Light PvP wise did better than Shadow Keep and Beyond Light sunset large amounts of gear and put off lots of players because of it. SBMM is a bad idea and only benefits players near the bottom of the skill range as they get games easier than those at the very bottom and at the very top and they also have access to use a wider variety of gear. The higher in the skill brackets you go the more restrictive builds and weapons are which pushes away higher end players and even the upper end of the average players.[/quote] The stasis grind was a few extra missions and then the rest were bounties, and those bounties could optionally take you into PvP. Beyond Light was also a much larger spectacle in general, which brought more players back. Shadowkeep, and the seasons that followed it, were some of the heaviest PvE seasons in the game's history. We got umbral engrams, the 100-rank seasonal grind, and the start of the "seasonal activity" grind. It was also the DLC with the super long season that saw player numbers dip across the board, not just in PvP. Beyond Light was a typical length, didn't introduce anything new, and a lot of the stasis stuff was tied directly into PvP, or could be if the player chose to. Also, Beyond Light saw sunsetting, which means we lost more than half the game's raids, the maangerie, a bunch strikes, and other PvE content while PvP remained relatively the same in terms of overall content available. So yeah, less things for PvE players to do, means some of em are gonna go into PvP more often. None of those things have ANYTHING to do with SBMM or CBMM, and are more in line with what was being offered at the time. Hell, even the overpowered weapons like Mt Top and Recluse 100% had a greater effect than matchmaking style. Correlation doesn't equal causation, and just because that was the DLC with SBMM doesn't mean SBMM was the reason numbers when down when people were tired of being one shot by a jotunn and Mt Top every game. As for the other point, SBMM and CBMM don't "benefit" anybody. They are mindsets. CBMM benefits the mindset of lazy players who want easy games and then go onto reddit, or discord, or these forums, and act like they're amazing at the game in a matchmaking system where NO ONE is good at the game because the games aren't competitive. SBMM is a mindset where matches are supposed to be competitive because it's a competitive game mode. It's like the difference between creative mode and survival mode in Minecraft. The "benefit" goes to the player who adheres to the behavior. If I want a competitive match that's close at the end, I want SBMM. If I want games where I either win 100-10 or lose 10-100, then I want CBMM. Problem is, with CBMM, people try to act like it's SBMM, and go in and play hyper competitively, and then brag about their inflated stats in a matchmaking style specifically designed to not be competitive at all. Because that toxic behavior is present, might as well make it SBMM and make those unpleasant people earn their bragging. In CBMM, NO ONE should EVER be bragging about their stats. But because people do, and use their CBMM inflated stats to make other players feel bad about themselves, SBMM makes the most sense for this player base. That's how y'all talk, so that's how y'all should play. Sorry.

That certainly is a lot of your own personal biased opinion stated as fact. Stats aren’t “inflated” when playing against everyone in cbmm. Skill is calculated by where you stand in the entire community not just against people that are your skill level or else there wouldnt be skill brackets at all. Sbmm pushes everyone to be close to a 1.0. I can understand that you feel bad that you aren’t good at the game but you can’t dictate how skill is defined and calculated. You are coping for your own failure. The only thing that makes you feel better is trying to tell good players they aren’t good because they play against worse players. The thing is if they weren’t good they wouldn’t be better than those players. You are creating a paradox.

[quote]That certainly is a lot of your own personal biased opinion stated as fact. Stats aren’t “inflated” when playing against everyone in cbmm. Skill is calculated by where you stand in the entire community not just against people that are your skill level or else there wouldnt be skill brackets at all. Sbmm pushes everyone to be close to a 1.0. I can understand that you feel bad that you aren’t good at the game but you can’t dictate how skill is defined and calculated. You are coping for your own failure. The only thing that makes you feel better is trying to tell good players they aren’t good because they play against worse players. The thing is if they weren’t good they wouldn’t be better than those players. You are creating a paradox.[/quote] Skill is not calculated at all in a non competitive environment, and CBMM is the very definition of a non competitive environment. I honestly don't care about what you think about my skill in this game because I don't need validation from random trolls in the Bungie forums. I can cherry pick your stats and make you look like a trash player. It's not hard to do in a game with so many things to do. Sling all the crap you want to, but at the end of the day, the only reason to go CBMM is because the community is too soft and sensitive, and want their dopamine delivered on a silver platter instead of earning it. People like that will never the good at any PvP. I mean, for heaven's sake, I did more raids last week than you've done in your entire D2 life, and hours faster than you did yours. Would you like me to start railing about what a pointlessly inexperienced PvE players you are? Or would you like to drop the insults and talk about this like a normal person. Your call.

[quote][quote]That certainly is a lot of your own personal biased opinion stated as fact. Stats aren’t “inflated” when playing against everyone in cbmm. Skill is calculated by where you stand in the entire community not just against people that are your skill level or else there wouldnt be skill brackets at all. Sbmm pushes everyone to be close to a 1.0. I can understand that you feel bad that you aren’t good at the game but you can’t dictate how skill is defined and calculated. You are coping for your own failure. The only thing that makes you feel better is trying to tell good players they aren’t good because they play against worse players. The thing is if they weren’t good they wouldn’t be better than those players. You are creating a paradox.[/quote] Skill is not calculated at all in a non competitive environment, and CBMM is the very definition of a non competitive environment. I honestly don't care about what you think about my skill in this game because I don't need validation from random trolls in the Bungie forums. I can cherry pick your stats and make you look like a trash player. It's not hard to do in a game with so many things to do. Sling all the crap you want to, but at the end of the day, the only reason to go CBMM is because the community is too soft and sensitive, and want their dopamine delivered on a silver platter instead of earning it. People like that will never the good at any PvP. I mean, for heaven's sake, I did more raids last week than you've done in your entire D2 life, and hours faster than you did yours. Would you like me to start railing about what a pointlessly inexperienced PvE players you are? Or would you like to drop the insults and talk about this like a normal person. Your call.[/quote] I mean I don’t play pve, it’s boring and not difficult. Only reason I’ll play anything pve related is for a gun for pvp. All your arguments are red herrings paradoxes and logical fallacies. You don’t have any real argument.

[quote][quote][quote]That certainly is a lot of your own personal biased opinion stated as fact. Stats aren’t “inflated” when playing against everyone in cbmm. Skill is calculated by where you stand in the entire community not just against people that are your skill level or else there wouldnt be skill brackets at all. Sbmm pushes everyone to be close to a 1.0. I can understand that you feel bad that you aren’t good at the game but you can’t dictate how skill is defined and calculated. You are coping for your own failure. The only thing that makes you feel better is trying to tell good players they aren’t good because they play against worse players. The thing is if they weren’t good they wouldn’t be better than those players. You are creating a paradox.[/quote] Skill is not calculated at all in a non competitive environment, and CBMM is the very definition of a non competitive environment. I honestly don't care about what you think about my skill in this game because I don't need validation from random trolls in the Bungie forums. I can cherry pick your stats and make you look like a trash player. It's not hard to do in a game with so many things to do. Sling all the crap you want to, but at the end of the day, the only reason to go CBMM is because the community is too soft and sensitive, and want their dopamine delivered on a silver platter instead of earning it. People like that will never the good at any PvP. I mean, for heaven's sake, I did more raids last week than you've done in your entire D2 life, and hours faster than you did yours. Would you like me to start railing about what a pointlessly inexperienced PvE players you are? Or would you like to drop the insults and talk about this like a normal person. Your call.[/quote] I mean I don’t play pve, it’s boring and not difficult. Only reason I’ll play anything pve related is for a gun for pvp. All your arguments are red herrings paradoxes and logical fallacies. You don’t have any real argument.[/quote] How would you know if it's not difficult? You haven't even done more than half of the endgame activities. I've done all the PvP game modes, so at least I know what I'm talking about. Yeesh. You also use words and don't know what they mean. Please stop googling random logical fallacies. You literally sound like you're cramming words together and they don't make any sense. You clearly don't know what a paradox is.

A player playing in cbmm that is a good player doesn’t have inflated stats. Saying the stats are inflated because they are playing a bad player is literally a paradox. They wouldn’t be so good if they weren’t good. 🤡

[quote]A player playing in cbmm that is a good player doesn’t have inflated stats. Saying the stats are inflated because they are playing a bad player is literally a paradox. They wouldn’t be so good if they weren’t good. 🤡[/quote] No, I said CBMM isn't a competitive style of matchmaking, and therefore you can't determine player skill through it. Games use it in "casual" playlists for a reason, and there's a reason it's literally never ranked. You don't know what a paradox is and you're misquoting me. Another C average student trying to sound smart in the Bungie forums. Imagine.

[quote][quote]A player playing in cbmm that is a good player doesn’t have inflated stats. Saying the stats are inflated because they are playing a bad player is literally a paradox. They wouldn’t be so good if they weren’t good. 🤡[/quote] No, I said CBMM isn't a competitive style of matchmaking, and therefore you can't determine player skill through it. Games use it in "casual" playlists for a reason, and there's a reason it's literally never ranked. You don't know what a paradox is and you're misquoting me. Another C average student trying to sound smart in the Bungie forums. Imagine.[/quote] My brother quickplay is not a competitive playlist, nor is this game in general “competitive”

[quote][quote][quote]A player playing in cbmm that is a good player doesn’t have inflated stats. Saying the stats are inflated because they are playing a bad player is literally a paradox. They wouldn’t be so good if they weren’t good. 🤡[/quote] No, I said CBMM isn't a competitive style of matchmaking, and therefore you can't determine player skill through it. Games use it in "casual" playlists for a reason, and there's a reason it's literally never ranked. You don't know what a paradox is and you're misquoting me. Another C average student trying to sound smart in the Bungie forums. Imagine.[/quote] My brother quickplay is not a competitive playlist, nor is this game in general “competitive”[/quote] And yet you and people like you brag about your quickplay KD like having a good KD in a casual game mode matters, and you sweat out casual games, which makes it less fun for everyone trying to have a good time. You can't have it both ways. You can't be competitive about your stats in a playlist designed to be casual. That's the whole problem. People play this game like they're trying to win a competition in a game mode that's meant to be chill, and that ruins the experience for everyone else. We all stop playing, and the population dives, and then people like you whine about having to face people at your skill level. Sorry bud, I'm not going back into that game mode to make you happy. I don't wake up everyday, go to work, come home, and log into Destiny 2 PvP to farmed out to people who live at home with Mommy and daddy and do nothing but no life one game mode all day. You're not worth it. But, back to the prior point. CBMM is used in casual playlists. If you're bragging about your KD and skill level, you're not playing casually, you're playing competitively, and the game mode should change based on how you behave, not based on what you want.