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Edited by sonicBOOM5431:
8/3/2021 2:31:14 PM
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So question. How exactly would one go about nerfing handcannons without destroying them like bungie did in d1. Many weapons are just outright better than handcannons in terms of ttk, but the difference is how handcannons can be used. So what would you do to nerf them? Maybe another range nerf? Perhaps. Aim assist? Probably. But what else? You can't nerf damage cause that would make them useless (like most scouts).
So many people like to post "nerf handcannons" but never provide any actual feedback or solutions. It's something you need to think about.
Also, once you nerf shotguns, another special weapon will rise. Fusions are arguably more oppressive due to their range. Nerf shotguns, the fusion meta will rise again. We already have a rise in the most frustrating special weapon: nade launchers. Theres nothing inherently wrong with shotguns. They do what they're supposed to do, they can just be used as a primary. The issue lies with special ammo. If you want to fix special weapon balance, you have to fix special ammo balance.
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Edited by AoIcrom: 8/3/2021 9:57:21 PMI think Bungie just needs to update the maps, if not then maybe reduce the cone aa on HCs by 5-10%
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Put the shotguns in the heavy slot that would slow the shotgunners down
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Oh buddy you haven’t been around here long have you?
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I've been playing since D2 since it been out
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Then you would know the y1 system almost killed bungie as a company even going as far as to make their parent company disown them
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But that doesn't solve the issue of other special weapons. We also run into the same problem as d2 y1. Shotguns can't compete with heavy weapons, just like none of the special weapons could when they were in the heavy slot.
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Lol they were never destroyed in D1. 😂😂😂
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When taken king dropped, they got nerfed hard (thanks thorn and last word). They became "RNG: The Gun." Every trigger pull basically gave every shot a random chance of landing on your target, no matter how dead center your sights were on someone. Ghost bullets are what everyone called them. You're telling me you didn't hear that term thrown around for a year? There was very popular video showing it off back then. You should check it out and see how terrible it was. The only reason you still saw handcannons around was cause of people like me who just like the weapon type. The meta was pulses after the hand cannon nerf
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I know this one. Basically they reduced a certain value so low that it prevented them from working properly because the bullets would bug out. RoI later patched this.
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Lol bud I was there. First off, the pulse meta lasted till Dec. Autos took over then because of a specific auto archetype from trials. HCs were always around on top just behind them. I don’t really want to hear anything re Phantom Bullets and HCs. That stuck around for the remainder of D1, and HCs were top for almost all of it. But I wasn’t here arguing that. I was here telling you that you were wrong on them being “destroyed”. They were always still in the top mix, regardless of what Meta Bungie attempted to implement. HCs are the most forgiving weapons in all aspects of the game. May as well delete all other primary weapons at the rate we’re going. Rarely do I see any other primary weapon.
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I mean, if you consider the dark below until taken king launch to be the majority of d1, then yeah you're right. But it was the other weapons that had their time to shine for y2 and y3. The only auto that really got into meta after it was Doctrine of Passing (specifically the adept version) from trials. Mostly pulses and scouts (specifically MIDA) after the nerf. That is until y3 when sidearms just took over because no one could adapt to losing special ammo and needed to crutch on ammo generating/primary specials. Again you still saw handcannons cause people just like using them, but they never hit the top of the meta again until d2 y2. I guess maybe eyasluna got popular for a second in there somewhere. If you wanted to consistently win gunfights, you weren't using a handcannon. Too much randomness. You'd be using a weapon that actually fired where you were aiming lol.
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MIDA had a 2 month time to shine before it got nerfed and HC/Sniper became the meta once again. Bud, I hear ya, and yes there were metas, but HCs were right there as #2 to whatever meta was current, if they weren’t the current meta. HCs have always been king primary, and will continue to do so. There is just no way to prevent it with how they are designed.
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At least there is one person asking the right question. My opinion is they should reduce the training wheels on HC to at least the level other primary’s get.
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Yeah, I'm thinking a nerf to aim assist/bullet magnetism is the best course of action.
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Why not destroy them? Nerf them an take them out of the meta for a season or two then buff them back. But I agree on the special ammo issue, even though apparently people didn't like it I feel the end of d1 had it right.
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Thats the dumbest idea ive ever heard. You wanna kill a whole weapon class just so you donthaave to deal with it? Someone come get this dumbass -blam!-ing snowflake bro. Gtfo
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Edited by sonicBOOM5431: 8/3/2021 3:37:08 PMHere's the thing. Bungie should be trying to achieve balance. They have this mentality of purposely creating metas and making other things bad and it's just dumb. The goal should always be balance. I know it's a difficult task, but its way better for the game that way. Theres no reason a game with so much variety should actually be so limited, and destroying a weapon type only makes that issue worse. Also about that d1 thing, nah hand cannons were garbage by the end of d1. Bloom and ghost bulleting was horrendous. It put you at a disadvantage for using them. Even the shot from the initial trigger pull could completely miss even though your reticle was dead center on a target. Hand cannons were literal random number generators in d1 after the great hand cannon nerf of Taken King. Only reason you still saw them around because of people like myself who just like the weapon type
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I remember after TTK it was mostly hawksaws and hopscotch, thorn was still good but I can’t remember if it’s infamous nerf happened with that DLC,!
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Yeah. Y2 is when the pulse rifle meta blew up. Hand cannons got killed after the long reign of thorn and last word. What a time that was.
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If actual balance can't be achieved then every weapon type deserves it's time both at the top of the meta and the bottom of the meta. Though I was talking about the special ammo economy from the end of d1 where you started the game with some ammo but the only way to get more was to kill someone that had some or to hit up the special ammo spawns. No dying and getting a few more shots that then fed those who killed you.
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Oh yeah. I actually loved that special ammo meta. I think it wouldve been perfect if there weren't special weapons that could completely negate the economy *cough* icebreaker *cough* no land beyond *cough* invective *cough*. I feel like if they implemented it in d2, it would work way better, though fighting lion would likely become a serious issue if that were to happen
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Yeah but a single weapon causing a problem would quickly find itself nerfed so it's damage would likely drop to the point of being niche and only effective in a play style built around it.
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nade launchers arnt even bad
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That’s all you took from that?
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yeah because i agree with everything else
