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10/7/2019 8:45:42 PM
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MIssed the point.
Probably because you're so focused on what you can't do....that you're failing to see what you CAN do that you couldn't do before.
Here's the point your missing.
In Armor 1.0, the game didn't require to make any significant choices. The system was so limited that it basically did all the thinking and chosing for you. [b] Armor 2.0 gives you a lot more choices...but those choices have in-game consequences. [/b]
So if you're going to stack damage mods..a mile high, you're going to pay a price somewhere else. If you stack intellect---as I found out the hardway----you'll play the price somewhere else (in my case a lack of survivability due to low resilience).
Also base stats are tied to power level As you get heigher power gear....you get stat rolls wtih more points....and better stat rolls.
So---once again---you make a choice. WHATS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU? BASE STATS OR ARMOR PERKS.
If you choose base stats.....you can use your mods slots to build the base stats you want...but you'll have less flexibility with perks.
If you choose perks....you can use your mod slots to build a specialized weapon-based build and stack ammo and weapon handling perks....but its going to cost you where base stats are concerned.
[i]Solution: SITUATIONAL BUILDS.[/i]
Everyone keeps coming at Armor 2.0 with a 1.0 mindset: I'm going have one ideal build and use it every where. The point is that build (in all likelihood) doesn't EXIST any more. This system becomes MUCH easier to negotiate when you think in terms of creating builds for particular functions....and going from there.
English
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The problem is that now you have 3 terrible builds instead of one good one. Armor 1.0 was the far better system. The only good thing about armor 2.0 is that I can equip ornaments so that I don't look like Frankenstein. Why Bungie decided to obliterate everyone's old gear and then give us extremely generic builds with garbage mods like 'rifle dexterity' I'll never know As for one good build being used everywhere. That's straight bullshit. Most people had several PvE builds and 1 or 2 completely different perk sets in PvP. Armor 2.0 mods are a huge step backwards over the old system in terms of variety and utility.
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No. Armor 1.0 was a [i]simpler system [/i]. But it was a constraining one. There was no other way to play than to just stack weapon perks. Right now I’m trying out a skill build of sorts where I use Demolitionist to keep my grenade up. Then run a void subclass and mod my armor so that my grenades disrupt enemies. Which makes them easier to kill. Which feeds me more grenade energy..... Which is a much more fun way to play than Outlaw/Rampage, Enhanced Hand Cannon Reloader, Hand Cannon Scavenger. But the issue is that I don’t think you guys care about pve. Your mad that you can’t stack things that will let you break pvp. Which is a rare case of Bungie actually getting ahead of this stuff rather that running around behind it with a broom a mop and a nerf bat.
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[b]Solution: SITUATIONAL BUILDS.[/b] [b]Counter Point:[/b] -Weaker Builds -Mods Locked to different elements
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No. Situational builds are usually stronger in their context than damage stacking builds are. All that is going on is the system is forcing people to be more creative than: [i]Level up. Run the meta.[/i]
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" usually stronger" .. maybe in other games or armor 1.5, but not in armor 2.0 The POINT of armor 2.0, is to make you grind more for roughly the same stats you had before, but, less so. This was a decidedly anti consumer decision. As a game continues forward , people are meant to have a sense of gaining some kind of power, while old enemies become trivial, newer ones are meant to become as dangerous as the last apex enemies. All they've done is slow the entire experience down to increase frustration, to keep people grinding.
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Nope. Because I’m already finding powerful synergies in the game that was buried under simple ( and simple minded DPS stacking).
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they're powerful for 2.0 builds, but theyre still weaker than normal ones. The best you can get is anything in line with the seasonal artifact, which is just another way to keep you in a[b] hell loop[/b] of grinding.
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Nerfed old armor vs. limited new armor. What a significant choice, oh my. Exactly what I dreamt about.
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For the most part, you're spot on. But as far as the situational builds thing goes, what if I want to run Chaperone and a sniper on PvP to really synergize with Way of the Wraith? That build requires a scavenger perk of each, shotgun and sniper, to be effective. With the elements in Armor 2.0, that isn't possible, as shotguns are arc, snipers are void, and scavenger mods are only on boots. That one thing eliminates a lot of double special builds. I mean, double special builds are meant to be hard to maintain, but now it isn't even possible for a lot of them.
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They aren’t going to let you break pvp’s ammo economy. Bungie spent the last two years having to chase down and nerf troll builds. They aren’t going to make that mistake again.
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Well apparently the scavenge mod we have now is two in one, so the ammo economy itself isn't changed. I haven't tested that yet so I'm not positive. My point is double special builds themselves aren't even possible now.
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They are because Lisa Brown ran one in the reveal trailer. They just aren’t going to let you break the game’s ammo economy. They’re finally [i]learning[/i] from their previous mistakes. I’d rather the game not give us power in an area than giving it and then having to keep coming back and taking it away.
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I'm talking about PvP specifically. You'll be starved for ammo in PvE for sure, but it'll work. There's a lot more potential to get ammo there. Running two specials in PvP makes you start out with one shot in each. Without a scavenger for each, you get almost no ammo for a kill, if they drop it. So your ability to chain kills with these double special loadouts just got significantly limited. It was already limited in Y2 after Recluse came out as well. You had to get a lobby that had special in play and then you had to make use with the two shots you had. That already limited the potential of the builds, but it really made the player feel awesome when they got the ball rolling. Now the ball is a cubed rock that doesn't budge.
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Which is exactly what Bungie wants. If you want to run around and spam OHK weapons, they’re going to make you work for it.
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Edited by Wes: 10/8/2019 3:08:52 PMYou call using Chaperone and a sniper as spamming? It already requires work to use that combo. Two shots is all you have, and you must land crits to get a kill. And then the people you killed had to have special, or your streak ended there. Before Armor 2.0, ammo was already a problem. You already HAD to work for ammo. Many times you'd kill two people and neither of them would have ammo. That was a death sentence. Now ammo is an even larger a problem so it isn't even really viable in PvP. What good does that do? Support this Mountaintop/Recluse or DRB nonsense even more? Ammo was an issue with the builds before. It was it's largest drawback. Even the most skilled players can't make it work of they don't have bullets. Scavenger perks mitigated this, but it certainly didn't remove it. To make it harder to use creative, high skill gap builds just promotes this brainless meta we've been in for a year and limits PvP build potential. Edit: And if that's what Bungie wants, so be it. Can't say it makes a single bit of sense though.
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They are both OHK weapons that can have a disastrous effect on the balance of pvp in the current sandbox. Especially since Bungie insists on keeping primaries underpowered relative to player movement speed.
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Snipers are far from overpowered. Apart from Beloved, most snipers have relatively low aim assist and the handling speeds have been reduced across the board from D1 in order to prevent all the sniper shenanigans from that game. And then flinch. Chaperone is a precision weapon. Requires a headshot to get a OHK, but rewards aggressive precision. If you miss your shot or you let Mr. Crutch Rock Blues get to close, you die. Usually anyways. Also has a skill gap. If it was overpowered, a lot more people would use it. And running both was possible last season with 1 scavenger perk of each, shotgun and sniper, although it was very difficult to master. Did it break the balance of the sanbox? No. Did most people ever see anyone running the build? Absolutely not. Could a below average player even run that build and compete with the meta at the time? Probably not. To say that a build that existed previously would destroy what we have now is just a false statement. The build already existed and didn't break anything. The sandbox is virtually unchanged when it comes to weapons that counter that build as well. Only difference is now it's even harder to use it.
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You’re having an argument with yourself. My point is that the sandbox is out of balance because primaries are [b]underpowered.[/b] So Bungie compensates by restricting the amount of OHK weapons. Because they’re unwilling to fix the actual problem.
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Well maybe I misunderstood you, but I thought you were defending that. My bad. My main point is that Armor 2.0 limits PvP build potential and needlessly increases the grind. If they chose to do it for the reason you say, so be it. That doesn't warrant the design of tying mods to elements though. Not in my opinion. That one thing increases the grind and limits creativity all at once. Every other aspect of Armor 2.0 I'm actually a fan of. I'll grind out perfect stats all day. But grind out perfect stats THREE times? My God. That's some serious inflation of pay time if I've ever seen it. Some people might not ever get top tier stats of their choice. And then it has to be the element that fits their desire for those stats as well. Kinda ridiculous.
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Once again PVP issues don't allow PVE to have nice things.
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**********Thisssssssssssssssssssss*********** PvP was a freaking mistake, and all its done is force some terrible decisions on how it feels to play the actual game.
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Edited by X-LoganX: 10/8/2019 12:59:47 PMIt wasn't a mistake it was just poorly designed in D2. PVP is the only thing that keeps population numbers up in between content. The problem is it only catered to high level play and the mid and lower tiers sufferred. Man your not just a tinfoil hat but a pve purist as well. Nice.
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I love this. I feel there's also the "I want it now" mentality also. Armor 2.0 has more [u]Long Haul[/u] thought to it then people want to realize (or admit) Sorry but here comes the LoganX blunt statement. Armor 2.0 was not made for the entitled youth with short attention spans. It was made for people who understand long term play.
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Edited by TINY_RIIIIIIIIICK: 10/8/2019 12:21:08 PMno it doesn't... its quite transparently built to force more grinding to keep people frustrated but engaged.. this is a tactic thats been built around psychological profiling of consumers and games. Basically psychological abuse on people and their wallets. Its not unique to Bungie either, its just sad to see them quadrupling down on frustration over fun.
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Lol. I love your tinfoil hat. It's such a revelation that developers may actually want people to keep playing their game. You know what this is? This is your millennial brain talking to you. Everything is a conspiracy. Everything is big business trying to take advantage. You don't really want Bungie to succeed. You want them to cater to the player so much that they're then forced to make a game that no depth to it. Because we as players know what's best for gaming. #Sarcasm People like you are the worst kind of source for feedback. Why are you even here?
