[quote]Anyway, I think you are just trying to argue for argue's sake.[/quote] I think you've misunderstood my intention and I don't want to do the same with yours. So if you're still watching this thread please clarify; are you trying to argue that ignoring all the mobs in a fight by hiding behind permanent cover from them (more or less unbreakable for the duration of the fight) is the same as being challenged by the potential threat of [i]all[/i] the combatants? Is hiding more or less in one spot of as you call it, excellent cover the entire fight the same as using all the game has taught you about the push-pull of constant movement to avoid getting wrecked by high-burst enemy attacks vs. setting up and soaking lesser attacks for precision shots, scripted enemy spawns, navigation AI, and dancing around them (so you can kick their asses like the legend you were intended to become)? If so, I respectfully strongly disagree. I know my earlier glib response might make it seem otherwise, but I respect your opinion and perception even as I'm explicitly hoping to change your mind. Let me clarify my intentions for you: I don't care how skilled others think I am trying to sound, I have used just about all the exploits uncovered and came to feel they were ruining my potential enjoyment and rush of rising to the challenge endgame does or at least should represent, and can't help but feel they are doing the same for others as well. I just want the endgame to present the same engaging challenge to everyone. I want all Guardians to be more awesome and not hobble themselves (in my honest opinion) through exploiting inbalances in the game's mechanics that either will or at least IMHO should be patched. And I say "should" because I [i]strongly[/i] believe that the lure of such imbalances to be exploited are holding them back from experiencing the spirit of the endgame as the designers intended it. I expect that there will always be the draw to find such exploits and applaud players with the ingenuity to find them themselves, whether they decide to post them for the devs and all to see or keep them in-group. But they should still be patched quickly after being discovered and used to "farm" by the community. The longer they persist as quick and dirty ways to circumvent a challenge the longer they hurt everyone's efforts to organize a group around the endgame's intended challenge*. *I [i]know[/i] that intention as the game stands now is not consistently clearly communicated. There are enemies intended to force you out of hiding spots that can be taken out (Nexus) or forced to despawn (Summoning Pits). I believe the knigh-invincible boomer knight in The Wakening is a better iteration of this approach and is evidence of where Bungie would prefer to go with such anti-exploit failsafes; others like "one-way vacuum doors" that pull the entire team into the battle area are good ideas that have been suggested. Now, Bungie has said they will not fix the VoG "wipe to return to Oracle-sniping ledge" as it's more arguably not an exploit because it leans on team communication, or at least coordination; but honestly I'd be fine with seeing it phased out too, because wiping should not give you an advantage in an activity where you implicitly shouldn't wipe, where wiping is a failure to reinforce learning from mistakes. Especially on HM, whether or not HM raid level / difficulty / rewards are eventually upgraded to be consistent with raises in endgame level floors and ceilings. All Bungie's in-game mixed messages on endgame difficulty aside, having followed the game and picked apart the developer communications regarding endgame from the day the game was announced (again, not trying to be elitist, this is just where quotes like "OMG, you're going to play a triple-A shooter and you're going to fail a lot" come from), I hope the designers can do a better job in the future of not sending more mixed messages about their intentions. Again, I want all players to feel like the endgame made them more awesome players, not that it taught them how to circumvent an intended challenge.