You bring up a valid point at failing a lot UNTIL you learn where to hide and such. The only thing I am trying to say is that the good hiding spots are not "cheese" spots. I have found great hiding spots in a couple of the missions and strikes and I share them with my friends that play. I learned these spots after many times dying on the given map. I appreciate those that share the spots they have found. I just think that we as players need to be more careful calling hiding spots "cheese" spots. Cheesing the game, breaks the game. But not a single one of the hiding spots I have ever found myself or learned about watching videos has ever made me Invincible...these hiding spots are only as good as the player that enters them. Therefore, they don't break the game, they allow those of us that really like to solo the endgame content to do so, albeit still with a lot of stress. I think that you and I may actually agree on this point...I have no problem dying TONS and TONS. I just don't want to have the great cover spots removed because too many people call it a "cheese" spot. I still think they should remove the walls blocking the platform on the Archon Priest Strike. (Yes I know you can still jump under the platform, but when I solo the heroic or nightfall that is too risky) That said, I LOVE the game and can't wait for more content to be released. I also look forward to learning more helpful tips and hiding spots to play the game from you excellent Guardians!!!!

>Hiding entire encounter >not cheese pick one

The two options you gave are not able to be defined under your classification. If in fact you hide the entire encounter then you would not ever expose yourself to do damage. Jumping up into that light does not make one invincible and you have to position yourself to both deliver damage to Valus and that opens you to damage from him. At this point you are being disingenuous attempting to say that hiding the entire encounter is cheese. I am certain you hide the entire encounter as well or you would never beat Valus. Whether you hide behind the crates, or the blast shields, or under the ramp, or behind the numerous pillars, or on the light, etc., you MUST hide somewhere to avoid damage long enough that you survive the encounter. However, you will have to come out from behind that cover many times to deliver damage and that is when you could receive damage as well. Anyway, I think you are just trying to argue for argue's sake. Good cover spots are not cheese and stating that hiding behind them for the entire encounter is cheese, necessarily implies then, that the entire game is cheese since every Guardian, in every encounter MUST hide behind cover or they will die before killing the bad guy.

[quote]Anyway, I think you are just trying to argue for argue's sake.[/quote] I think you've misunderstood my intention and I don't want to do the same with yours. So if you're still watching this thread please clarify; are you trying to argue that ignoring all the mobs in a fight by hiding behind permanent cover from them (more or less unbreakable for the duration of the fight) is the same as being challenged by the potential threat of [i]all[/i] the combatants? Is hiding more or less in one spot of as you call it, excellent cover the entire fight the same as using all the game has taught you about the push-pull of constant movement to avoid getting wrecked by high-burst enemy attacks vs. setting up and soaking lesser attacks for precision shots, scripted enemy spawns, navigation AI, and dancing around them (so you can kick their asses like the legend you were intended to become)? If so, I respectfully strongly disagree. I know my earlier glib response might make it seem otherwise, but I respect your opinion and perception even as I'm explicitly hoping to change your mind. Let me clarify my intentions for you: I don't care how skilled others think I am trying to sound, I have used just about all the exploits uncovered and came to feel they were ruining my potential enjoyment and rush of rising to the challenge endgame does or at least should represent, and can't help but feel they are doing the same for others as well. I just want the endgame to present the same engaging challenge to everyone. I want all Guardians to be more awesome and not hobble themselves (in my honest opinion) through exploiting inbalances in the game's mechanics that either will or at least IMHO should be patched. And I say "should" because I [i]strongly[/i] believe that the lure of such imbalances to be exploited are holding them back from experiencing the spirit of the endgame as the designers intended it. I expect that there will always be the draw to find such exploits and applaud players with the ingenuity to find them themselves, whether they decide to post them for the devs and all to see or keep them in-group. But they should still be patched quickly after being discovered and used to "farm" by the community. The longer they persist as quick and dirty ways to circumvent a challenge the longer they hurt everyone's efforts to organize a group around the endgame's intended challenge*. *I [i]know[/i] that intention as the game stands now is not consistently clearly communicated. There are enemies intended to force you out of hiding spots that can be taken out (Nexus) or forced to despawn (Summoning Pits). I believe the knigh-invincible boomer knight in The Wakening is a better iteration of this approach and is evidence of where Bungie would prefer to go with such anti-exploit failsafes; others like "one-way vacuum doors" that pull the entire team into the battle area are good ideas that have been suggested. Now, Bungie has said they will not fix the VoG "wipe to return to Oracle-sniping ledge" as it's more arguably not an exploit because it leans on team communication, or at least coordination; but honestly I'd be fine with seeing it phased out too, because wiping should not give you an advantage in an activity where you implicitly shouldn't wipe, where wiping is a failure to reinforce learning from mistakes. Especially on HM, whether or not HM raid level / difficulty / rewards are eventually upgraded to be consistent with raises in endgame level floors and ceilings. All Bungie's in-game mixed messages on endgame difficulty aside, having followed the game and picked apart the developer communications regarding endgame from the day the game was announced (again, not trying to be elitist, this is just where quotes like "OMG, you're going to play a triple-A shooter and you're going to fail a lot" come from), I hope the designers can do a better job in the future of not sending more mixed messages about their intentions. Again, I want all players to feel like the endgame made them more awesome players, not that it taught them how to circumvent an intended challenge.