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11/30/2018 11:48:38 PM
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[quote]the reason most people are using them right now is for that pinnacle gl, it's use will go down in time.[/quote] Yup. Just like Shotguns went out of fashion after everyone had Chaperone's quest finished, and Sleeper quieted down after everyone got Ace/Chaperone/Malfeasance, and Pulses were left by the wayside after everyone finished Redrix. Destiny is a game of lowest common denominators, and players are going to use a) what everyone else is using and b) whatever some spreadsheet, streamer, or Reddit thread says is statistically "the best." It's always been that way, from the days of Last Word and Thorn through Doctrine of Passing, Uriel's Gift, Antiope, that whole Colony period, and most recently Bygones, IKELOS_SG, and Sleeper/Queenbreaker. Problem is, any time they tinker with the top-performing weapon, Bungie seem to forget that all they're doing is making #2 the new #1, and they'll have to nerf it next...it's a neverending cycle of mediocrity that won't stop until someone says "Yeah, it's a grenade launcher, it's SUPPOSED to kill you."
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  • Editado por NYC_InfamousNick: 12/1/2018 2:35:34 AM
    It's not easy to balance PvP in a loot-game, I give Bungie props for even attempting to give it a serious attempt. But they haven't made any changes to the meta since September and the game is starting to get stale. They need to mix things up a bit otherwise people are going to keep holding onto the same cheesy ass loadouts they have since then.

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  • Editado por OSI Whisper: 12/1/2018 4:25:08 AM
    IMO there shouldn't be "balance" in a PvP loot game - the entire point is to get badass weapons that feel awesome, not to make sure everything does identical damage in a mock-competitive environment and force players into boring sameness. (It's not really "balance" if only a handful of guns beat everything else.) That same "serious attempt" they've made has come at the expense of almost every top-tier PvE weapon's power and uniqueness, the king of all examples being Thorn - considering what we had to go through to get that weapon, it SHOULD have been a god-tier Exotic we got to enjoy for the life of the game. Pre-nerf it was a Raid-tier primary, and post-nerf everyone I played with scrapped theirs because literally any other HC in the game was better and its Exotic perk was rendered useless. Thorn was an Exotic, and a Quest Exotic at that, back when "Exotic" meant something - this game would be in an infinitely better state if Bungie had said "Yes, Thorn is a beast, because that's what Exotics are - game-changing monster weapons worth grinding for, because the Darkness isn't going to defeat itself." (The fact that it's easier to kill a Guardian than most enemies says a lot about where this game has headed.) For a game like Destiny, especially with the absolute mediocrity of Exotics right now, a better way to "balance" PvP gameplay would be to make different weapons awesome in their own unique way, rather than using DPS/TTK as a baseline and trying to make everything "equal to" everything else (at least on paper) - give every weapon a chance to shine in its intended role, design some maps that allow different play styles (rather than negating ranged combat and forcing CQ/mid-range weapons into the forefront by default), put everything back to pre-nerf levels, give it a month, and see if everyone isn't having more fun. If nothing else, we'll at least have more viable stuff to try.

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  • This we dont need balance we need more space magic

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  • If you played D1, you might remember a time when Voidwalkers were truly a magic-based class - Nothing Manacles + Scatter 'nades, Shatter, Life Steal, Hunger, and Embrace the Void turned Warlocks into Mages, able to solo Nightfalls without ever firing a single bullet. Some people thought it was "broken" (which is why we don't have it anymore), and the rest of us recognized that was the entire point of being a Warlock. The problem with Crucible is that there's no diversity - Hunter, Warlock, or Titan, they're all running the same gear, throwing (roughly) the same grenades, the only real difference is Supers and even then it's basically paper-rock-scissors with a bunch of similar abilities tailored to each class (Gunslinger was fine, Sunbreaker was an obvious ripoff, and Dawnblade made the original ranged Solar Super virtually irrelevant...if everyone can do everything, why even bother with classes?). While it puts me at a disadvantage, I generally choose to play Destiny the same way I play most class-based RPGs - my Hunter is my ranged character, running Scouts, Snipers, and LFs from a distance; my Warlock is my mid-range character, running Pulses, Fusions, Traces, and Rockets while covering teammates; and my Titan is my CQ character, running Autos, Shotguns, and Swords/LMGs/GLs while rushing straight into groups of enemies, because that's what Titans are for. Every time I see a Hunter crouching with a Shotgun and Antiope, it makes me wonder if most Destiny players understand what this game's about or have any idea how well the class/subclass system COULD have worked if players weren't so damn greedy for kills. I've always supported the idea of certain weapons being locked to certain classes, and character choice being a much bigger part of the overall experience - rather than just picking a random character, transferring weapons, and playing the same way, make choosing a Warlock, Hunter, or Titan a bigger deal. (Need a spare Titan for the Raid? Well, that comes at the expense of having another Whisper or Sleeper on the team, because those aren't Titan guns. Need another Hunter for a tether or Nighthawk GG shot? No EP shottie for you.) While Bungie aren't faultless, and their constant caving to player pressure has been a detriment to the game, the players themselves are largely responsible for the current state of Destiny - we had the tools to make this game great, but most chose the meta and easy kills over staying true to their characters and giving diversity a chance. So now we have...this.

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  • Scatter nades were so much fun

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  • Well you and I both want the same thing, it's just a matter of what the masses want. Destiny has a fair amount of appeal to the PvP community, not because of the balance or the stellar gameplay, but because it's easy for mechanically skilled people to get clips for YT and stream on Twitch. The game has MONSTER aim assist and bullet magnetism, and it makes getting multikills easy for those people. On PC it's a different story, but the people who are gods on console are gods on PC. Cammy, Baken, Drewsky, Gigz, Slayer, list continues. But the balance is to cater to the crowd that won't spend hours grinding for the perfect PvP god roll, so they have somewhat of a fighting chance against them. Usually the best average-skill weapons for PvP are found within the first week of gameplay, if not the first few days. You can easily pick up a bygones, which is probably tied for the most used weapon on console, then go into crucible and tear up.

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  • What "the masses" want is to kill without being killed, as evidenced by every thread about OP weapons from players running meta gear. :) While running my weekly Crucible matches on my Warlock tonight, I was paying special attention to everything going on in those matches, and found myself laughing when a Titan killed two teammates and me with Seismic Strike back-to-back...because I'd done exactly the same thing on my Titan a couple of days ago. Some players would immediately take to the forums and complain about OP Titans, but I thought "nah, fair play, I'd have done the same in that situation." It occurred to me that many players like it when an ability or weapon works in their favor, and dislike it when that same ability works against them - they're playing from such a subjective experience that they literally want Bygones to be good in their hands but bad in everyone else's, or Seismic Strike to be an OHK when they use it but think it's cheap and overused when the next guy uses it against them. I think too much of Destiny's PvP balance is skewed to inane complaints that get bandwagoned by people with nothing better to do, rather than a bit of common sense. And yes, I know a lot of it is geared to what looks good in this month's montage, but we're shooting each other with guns and beating each other to death in a video game, not making s'mores at grandma's house and trying not to hurt anyone's feelings - at some point ranged weapons need to be better at range, CQ weapons need to be better in CQ, and players who can't figure out how to play a map or selectively engage instead of run-and-gunning need to recognize the game isn't the problem. But, enough ranting and wishful thinking - we got the game we got, and we can either play it or not. I'm still playing Destiny because it's got more things I enjoy than things I don't, and I've yet to find another FPS with smoother gameplay or a wider variety of activities, just disappointed that things seem to keep getting worse rather than better. (As a Scout main, and former DMR-main Halo player [as well as a Hunting Rifle/Combat Rifle main in Fallout], solid ranged precision shooting is something that's virtually disappeared from Destiny over the past couple of years, and it's increasingly hard for me to get excited about a game lacking the one element I really like and play to.)

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