There's a lot of confusion about what the burden of proof actually is. Literally, the burden of proof is the requirement of an individual or group to warrant a certain epistemic position.
Atheism [i]does[/i] have propositional content. You often hear atheists claim that the burden of proof lies with those making the positive claim--in this case theism--which is by all means absolutely correct but it misses the larger epistemic difference. When theists claim atheists have no [i]proof[/i] of their position, it is somewhat misleading for two reasons I) it's often conflated with the assertion "a deity (or deities) definitely do not exist and II) the only evidence you can gain for something's non-existence is negative evidence (or evidence of absence).
However, that doesn't excuse atheism of [i]any[/i] burden. The negation of X is necessarily a proposition which entails its own negative evidence, or further propositions with positive evidence themselves. Saying "I don't believe X" is [i]epistemically identical[/i] to saying "X is false"; the only difference is a linguistic trick which denotes personal impositions of probability. The burden of proof for both instances is [i]identical[/i], as establishing your lack of belief is exactly the same as pragmatically establishing something's falsehood, otherwise you wouldn't lack belief in the first instance. This isn't a controversial claim to make, like, at all; it's pretty much what every atheist does in a debate when they properly counter theistic claims, but there seems to be a general consensus within the community that atheists lack a burden of proof for their propositions.
The lack of evidence for something--given observation and non-confirmation of positive synthetic propositions--is evidence for the lack of it. And, indeed, positive propositions can contradict [i]other[/i] positive propositions; creationism specifically is refuted--not only by the negative evidence of atheism as an ontological claim--but the overwhelming positive evidence of evolution. We [i]should[/i] present our evidence for our positive assertions, and we should present our negative evidence to establish the probabilistic assertion of "God doesn't exist".
The burden of proof is not some [i]essence[/i] of epistemology, in which propositions take part. It's a functional rule, that applies only insofar as people are willing to refuse or volunteer to uphold it. If the main claiming the invisible unicorn [i]fails[/i] to substantiate his claims, his burden of proof should be pointed out repeatedly, but there comes a point where it's worthwhile to break out the infra-red cameras and capture some negative evidence.
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#Offtopic
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Editado por Pagliacci: 2/11/2015 12:14:31 AMOh jeez, sparkles is back.
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2 RespuestasWe have God on our side!
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Atheist don't go on missions to convert people in other countries. /thread You really put effort into that absurd bait dough.
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6 RespuestasWheres the "-blam!- it, I dont really care anymore." religion?
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Editado por Camnator: 2/10/2015 2:26:41 PM"Saying 'I don't believe X' is epistemically identical to saying "X is false"' Hmm, not necessarily. I think that only applies when you reverse that phrase. Am I incorrect in assuming atheists simply don't believe in any deity? I assume the majority would believe in a deity if one were proven, though, I don't think it is possible to prove a being is a deity. Lastly, it is unnecessary to disprove that which has never been proven. I may be wrong, and this is why I avoid labels. It's so hilarious and both depressing watching a democrat and republican poorly argue with each other and only succeeding in one thing - Proving how incompetent the other side is.
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Apatheism ftw
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Wtf did I just read... I do not go to church regularly, I am not the "ideal' son Jesus Christ, I am a sinner, I've never read the bible, but in my world I'm just another individual hoping that when my time is up, I too will live in happiness up above.... I believe in science, the Big Bang, evolution, theory's that are backed up by facts.... Why is that bad? Why is atheism considered wrong, if none of us born right now knows the actual, physical truth?
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1 RespuestaSome gods definitely do not exist. Especially the kind that would intervene in the world consistently to help each person without hiding.
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6 RespuestasTopic in a nutshell: Religious nuts: God exists! Atheists: Prove it. Religious nuts: No you!
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Editado por U6757109: 2/10/2015 10:29:53 AMUghh so much crap about definitions. If I say [i]I'm not convinced god(s) exist[/i], then everyone else has the burden of proof.
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1 RespuestaMy gosh, these atheist posts.. No, actually religion threads in GENERAL flood this forum so much, it could destroy the friggin Halo. Tho I'm Christian. Don't h8 m8's
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2 RespuestasNot reading all that don't care never will
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Excellent
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But who cares about logic nowadays? Nice post.
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15 Respuestas*Is agnostic* [b][i][u]WIN[/u][/i][/b]
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Lack of belief is not belief of lack. If it was, then I assume you lack belief in atheism, so that gives you a burden of proof.
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2 Respuestastl;dr: To say something doesn't exist is as much of a claim as to say something does exist. But yeah, I think most atheists say they don't have to support their claims out of laziness.
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5 RespuestasAs long as you're not proposing that absence of evidence is enough on its own for conclusive evidence of absence then I'm with you. I've always gotten quite angry at atheists who seem to think they don't have to prove their position in a debate.
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3 RespuestasScience has proof. Nothing else.
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Show me proof God does exist and I'll gladly disprove it with the science I have.
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5 RespuestasOP using appeal to ignorance.
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Two points here. 1) The burden of proof always falls soundly on the one making a claim. Whether that claim is that "there is a god" or "There is no god", the one who makes the claim is the one who has to back it up. 2) It isn't as black and white as you make it seem. There is a middle ground of "There may be a God, but until there is proof, I won't fully agree". There is ALWAYS a middle ground that doesn't disprove either claim
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23 RespuestasClaim: there is a god. Okay prove it. Can't prove it? Okay. Guess I'll go on not believing in God K? K.
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You are the master fedora.
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2 RespuestasOP confirmed for retard
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22 Respuestas[quote]Saying "I don't believe X" is epistemically identical to saying "X is false"[/quote]It's not, but even granting that then it's still just as simple as "X, which you are proposing, is false on the basis of the failing of the proposition with your evidence," which is what atheists say when confronted with God propositions, which you acknowledge.