Deej,
You know my methods; employ them. I'm kicking this filthy habit until your teams can be convinced to quit stomping all over the product. I've got better things to do with my gaming hours (and writing hours) than to run widdershins around the Cosmodrome, opening loot caches that the Fallen don't even bother to protect, in hopes that something fun and not-stupid will appear.
Better things such as? [spoiler][i]Kingdoms of Amalur.[/i] The first 60 minutes of that game literally (not figuratively) have more narrative depth to them than the entirety of my 120+ hours in Destiny. I'll go play that for a few weeks/months instead. It's just as pretty as Destiny, in its own way, and the mechanical and conceptual depth of KoA puts the Big D to shame. Plus, I can make my loot. [i] I just love loot, don't you?[/spoiler]
[/i]That's right, DeeJ; [i]Fanboy Down[/i]. I finally took the Destiny disc out of my console, midway through leveling a second titan to 29. You've had my hardware tied up for over a month, on the strength of the gunplay, Titan mobility, visuals, and the soundtrack. And the hope that you'd make it grand at some point. I've had it with your toy.
Why give up on your pretty little grind-by-design crackpipe of a product now?
Because grinding another toon up to the cap is obligatory tedium, the servers are full of farm animals, and playing any more of it at this point makes no sense. The story missions aren't worth rehashing again even if there [i]were[/i] appropriate activity rewards for doing them, the crucible is unrewarding both materially and emotionally, the [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/76847338]VoG is a broken one-armed bandit[/url], and strikes are full of quitters because of your jacked up bounties. Patrol, the only thing I really enjoyed, has been utterly ignored since release, aside from depopulating it as a bandaid for the RNG loot fiasco, when you could have increased the replay value there exponentially with those same simple RNG-based tactics that your dev team seems to have such a hardon for. So much potential, so totally squandered. Just wait until the kids realize engram drops are more likely when you kill more than one critter with a single attack...all the caves are loot caves now...yay loot!
Nothing gets harder, or changes, gains complexity, or reacts to our "discoveries" and "adventures". The damned walkers don't even have randomly shielded legs and spawn as ultras. Why would they, right? [b]They never walk anywhere, but everybody would laugh if you called them "Devil Sitters".[/b] There's no patrol hard mode, because easy mode is the same no matter how "powerful" you get. We stole the sum total of an alien races knowledge and got...well nothing. Then we looted the Archive; nadda. Discovered an ancient AI that runs planetary defense networks and quotes Madame Blavatksy...
[i]Yeah, nice work kid, here's another gun.[/i]
TDB is coming out soon, and you guys have "repackaged" the story into the exotic bounty format. Whatever that actually means, it doesn't sound like an improvement. It sounds like another incoherent stream of disjointed vignettes that bear no relation to the world in which our characters are supposed to be acting; much like the first 20 missions turned out to be. It sounds like you folks took our criticism of the story and treated it as criticism of your delivery technique. It sounds like (oh, how I hope I'm wrong about this) another opportunity to make PvE focused players muck around in your precious Crucible in order to make it take longer for them get where they (think they) want to be.
Just so there's no confusion here: Delivery is a [b]tiny[/b] part of the problem. Cutscenes are fine, voiceover in loading screens and mid-action are also fine. We're rarely critiquing delivery methods. We're critiquing [b]substance[/b]. The story, such as it is, is contradictory, banal, and illogical. I'm not sure how or why your teams managed to make something so short and stupid-simple fit the action around it so poorly, and failed to connect it to the rest of the game so utterly. It doesn't fit the core game mechanics that you guys built to go along with it; it doesn't even stand on its own well enough to be read [i]with feeling[/i] by professional actors. In a single word, it's [b]amateurish[/b].
I say this as an amateur writer: I would be embarrassed to release the story your company tacked onto this game under my name.
Did the writers even play the missions they were writing dialog for? Because...if they did, then I may finally have seen evidence on which one could build a decent argument against recreational marijuana; One mission does not flow to the next, in any sense other than the temporal. There is no reason FOR any of it to happen the way it happens, there are no motivations, no reason to care, no consequences for success or failure.
But you know what the worst part is, for me? Worse than illogic, worse than simplistic after-school-special dialog, worse than a story with a bad beginning that lowers the bar with every chapter? Worse than a plot so awful that it appears to have required more effort to make it suck this comprehensively than it would have taken to write one that made sense?
"Winning" doesn't [i]matter[/i]. Clear the Black Garden...yay. Kill Sepiks Prime...yay. Take territory for Dead Obit...yay. Nothing happens. The sense of progress is painfully artificial, and temporary. No territory is taken. No character is developed. No legends are made. No changes are wrought. No City is saved. [i]No Darkness was harmed in the making of this film.[/i]
You've got the Strangers Rifle, but she has to leave in the middle of the party! Now what? She's off to fight Darth Vader with a Khvostov while I fight Sepiks Prime for the ninetieth time.
Do it [i]again[/i]? For heavens sake man, [i]WHY BOTHER?[/i] It didn't change anything, we didn't learn anything, we didn't get any more powerful, we didn't save anything, the children are still frightened anyway, and the City still doesn't even believe we exist.
That's what killed it for me in the end.
I know there are some people there in the building with you who understand this already. Some people who care about stories more than they care about analytics, accounting, and time-to-kill. I hope you're one of them. I hope you make friends with the people that will be hired to pull this tragically bad narrative off the cutting room floor and make something beautiful out of it, and I hope they're bright young things with excellent skin and fantastic imaginations. I hope you fight for them and support them in those team meetings when they push for something more substantial than ket vectors and cryptic pronoun-sauce.
Most of all, I hope they get a chance to tell a story that makes some -blam!-ing sense next time. I hope they get a recording budget and they can wipe the slate clean and rewrite those first 20 missions the way they should have been written in the first place. When the next hatchet man from accounting comes looking for somewhere inconsequential to prune the Bungie tree, and says that no one in the modern gaming market [i]really cares[/i] about [i]why[/i] we're murdering the same alien for the 32.767th time, I hope they have the integrity to gather up their scripts, form ranks, and collectively spit in his coffee while telling him to -blam!- off down the way towards the foosball tables.
[b]Because it isn't science fiction when the fiction is missing. Gamifying the act of repeatedly shooting things in the face may be well trodden ground in a culture that uses violence as coin of the realm, but when there's no story to tell, no world to protect, no point to the endless orgy of death other than [i]"give me your purse, (alien) bitch"[/i], it's a pretty shitty way to make a living.
It's quite fitting that the only artist in the Destiny universe is an old lady who can't remember that she's actually supposed to be [i]selling paint[/i].[/b]
Here's your personal actionable points, DeeJ: Stand up for the new writers, put your foot down for the fans of the engine that hated the plot, don't let bar charts take the field in team meetings. Never forget story; "Why We Fight" needs to be the most compelling part of any work of conflict-entertainment that you expect to last longer than fifteen minutes, let alone for years of repeat business. Only Bungie could have made the engine and gussied it up the way you did...but my ten year old can pick apart the plot. Stand up for the people who can fix that. Stand up to people who think that a player who spends 100+ hours grinding mats to hit the endgame isn't worth listening to because they played on past some arbitrary limit and magically became your toadies instead of customers who have opinions that carry weight...[b][i]because you don't have a franchise if we don't care enough to hit the 100 hour mark and look forward to hitting 500.[/i][/b]
Anyway, that's me, off to Amalur (and buying their DLC instead). I'll probably come back after the next update to see what you've convinced the dev team to care about. If the patch notes are incredibly informative and inspiring, I may even log in.
For the forum folks reading this: Don't everybody rush to tell me how little I'll be missed over the next few weeks as I [i]don't[/i] grind out upgrade mats to improve guns that have irrelevant stats so that I can kill things that all take equalized damage anyway.
I'm well aware of how quickly special snowflakes melt around here. This letter isn't really for you anyway.
/puddle
EDIT: Also, I like tacos.
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*Fist bump* Well put.
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More well put that my post. I am 100% with you
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23 RespuestasI can understand your frustration my friend, I too have found things about this game quite unrewarding and somewhat "smacked" together. But I must say it's been the most rewarding game I've played recently, and I just finished shadows of mordor (I do play other games is all I mean). Recently I commented on the feedback section, stating in a sense how pleased I was with the game thus far, and was shocked at the feedback I received. So much negativity, disappointment and un constructive feedback, unlike yours. But the truth is, most of your disappointment seems purely based on the story and its delivery. A lot of the points you bring up about the gameplay not being rewarding and the disjointed nature of the missions are concerning looking at this game from a story telling point of view. But looking at it from a stand alone fresh starting mythos this game is ingenious, as a guardian I am an immortal resurrected human being (or awoken or Exo who are curiously also considered human by nature) fighting for the last glimmer of humanity against an enemy that defeated both myself AND humanity at the height of its power. To me, that alone is a brilliant staging point for a tale that will undoubtedly become more diverse and unique. As for the myriad of issues you point out with the unchanging nature of the game as a whole are not deal breakers, so what, the walker doesn't walk about enough, or randomly select legs to shield, patrol having no hard mode, for me what I can choose to be hard at this point is good enough. learning the hives accumulated knowledge (humanity had already surpassed the hive in the golden age as an intelligent and powerful race), the Ishtar academy held the location of the vault of glass, and I was pretty happy with that not to mention as a guardian we are not researching the Ishtar collective, that's the cryptarchs job. And Rasputin is the only surviving human built AI that has survived the darkness, something only the traveler has been known to do, so in the game world it's a big deal! What is he hiding and why? The strangers rifle is a MASSIVE hint to who the stranger is by the way. This is intrinsic to the way destiny wants to tell its story, and to the story itself. I'm sure you will find your excitement to play destiny revitalized after TDB comes out, take what you have seen so far about this game and imagine "what more is possible?" The answer is ANYTHING. Before the VOG people did not realize how difficult, exciting and truly engaging this game can be. I for one have had many "bad raids" where players would leave and the servers would kick someone just before killing atheon and having to wipe but Jesus I had a lot of fun and it was all worth it. Your right the story such as it is leaves much to be desired...don't you see that was the intention. Yes the pace of the story will not meet those who strive for an early conclusion, as you so desperately are, but the conclusion is the destination and the game won't show us our DESTINY so easily. You are clearly a better writer than I and I imagine you are quite creative, so surely you know as I do that our destiny is to save the humans, the traveler and reclaim the golden age. It will be the journey that we enjoy, not the end. I watched the cutscenes back to back on YouTube and I guarantee anyone who watches it will see that it's their engagement in the game between cutscenes that make it hard to follow and care about. Personally I found it easy to follow and care about because I immersed myself I a purpose and a goal inside the game, not just exterior wants and needs like exotics and mats. As for winning being irrelevant... Start the game from day one and try not to win and see how you enjoy it, don't fire any weapons or kill anything, just run around in circles and see how rewarding the game is constantly losing. From the word go bungie ALWAYS said this is a journey that will span years, had they have given me some kind of conclusion in this first installment I would have thrown the disc in the bin and bought something else. It would have shown me that bungie were not serious about creating a game I can commit to for years. I know I may be proven wrong in my trust to this game, it may flop and be brushed under the wake of far more amazing and brilliant games, but from what I've seen so far, that's a long way off. Just a note: I don't know who DeeJ is, clearly an intelligent person who expected much more of this game. All of what I said is merely an opinion, I don't want to argue for nothing but constructive discussion is always welcome.
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1 RespuestaThey got their money, they aren't going to listen.
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5 RespuestasThis one sums it up pretty well. Addition: the lack of characters. Meaningful ones who react to you, your actions, who develop over time and who provide a context for the world and it's struggles. Without characters, there's no reason to care because there's nothing, no one to care about. Destiny doesn't have characters in its story. It has cameos and vendors. The dinklebot might count if its sole purpose wasn't just to spew exposition at you and pretend that's a story. I really hope Destiny 2 pulls it out of the gutter, because the DLC announced makes it pretty clear we're getting more of the same. Biggest AAA disappointment of 2014.
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2 RespuestasAlls I see are butt hurt fan boys, who actually think all these waaaahhhh sections will change something lol , I bet you also think strippers like you , and that man in the van really has candy
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7 RespuestasWhy do you people feel the need to share why you don't like a game you put a million hours into
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Love the post. You made me remember that guys comment about couching people's opinion if they've played 100 hours. That pissed me right off. And isnt it stupid to couch an opinion for that many hours when they're hoping we play the game for 10 years? Contradictory much?
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1 RespuestaWell, I took this shit out of my ps3, and put in skyrim and got all the dlc for about $20. I'll try kingdom, I wasn't sure but it's got good names behind it, and am glad you like it! Let me say this though, this game is plenty difficult when playing harder levels. I can do it, but it made me tired. Spawning more and more yellow bar creatures was not the answer to put a challenge on the game. It's a challenge for sure, but it gets tedious and boring at the same time. This game needed more of a sense of ADVENTURE, not geeked out difficulty with endless spawns. Challenge without adventure is not what the game's potential is. I enjoyed the strike missions very much though. That kind of gameplay was new to me. It's just like going in for pvp, but with pve, and it was great times. But, they ruined that with "the grind." I'm a person who doesn't keep up much with games before they come out, so all I honestly thought this game was another cod with a campaign and pvp. The end of the campaign is disappointing though because they created a framework that has all of this potential but leaves you flat. Congrats on what Destiny did well, but what it doesn't do well on...cmon guys you should have known better, and if seems like bunghole just didn't give a f u c k.
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Editado por MonsterUKBiker: 11/2/2014 6:20:38 PMI salute you sir for your eloquent and forthright posting, very well put!!! And thanks for the pointer on the other games that I might find fun I'll be checking them out as I'm so tired of Bungie and their propaganda.
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spot on, apart from the cannabis part.
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2 RespuestasKoA was awesome because of Salvatore. The man is a genius.
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Been busy with hyrule warriors myself, it's sad when a DYNASTY WARRIORS like game has a more cohesive story than destiny, and its actually a lot of fun. Unless bungie pulls off a 180 with the expansion, I'm done.
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I love tacos! And you frustration and observations are felt here as well. My wife has already moved on. She isn't even logging in to do the daily anymore. Sigh. This game has so much potential. It's just become a meeting place for my friends until we all get the next game where we can all play collectively together. Very sad. Still holding out for hope for Bungie...
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+1 My new favorite post on this topic. I agree that I do not expect a good fix with TDB. This is so mucked up story-wise that it will be at least to HoW before significant changes are hopefully made. And you are right, people are grinding to 100 hours just to hit the raid (like me, two days in on game hours with a ways to go) and some of them, I assume, are still left wondering. I hope I am not one of them.
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8 RespuestasTacos are good. Kingdoms of Amalur is really fun. You guys should play it. Destiny would definitely benefit from more RPG elements and less grinding. I also wish the classes were more distinct like in Borderlands. Defender is the only class with a super that doesn't kill, why does everyone have to be so violent all the time?
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3 RespuestasI really hope the 3 story missions from the dark below blow the others out if the water. I've heard DeeJ say that they've heard loud and clear about the lack of story so these 3 story missions will say a lot about the direction they're going.
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After writing my own page of the awful offenses Bungie has committed with destiny (which compared to yours looks like a post-it) I fully agree
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Bump!!!!
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I'm going back to wow to play a real MMO
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Well versed sir, and I, and I'm sure, others, support your constructive criticism. Glad I took the time to read this. I, like you, hope Destiny does make a turn around for the better. After completing 150ish strikes, 20+ full raid runs, and countless hours on patrol,. I find the game to be quite sterile. The only saving grace I've had is the clan I've put together, we tend to make our own stupid immature fun, which I can only take so much of. Have a good time where ever your gaming ventures take you!
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4 RespuestasThree words: Neck beard, Fedora.
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100 percent agree. Unless they give us the game that was shown/promised earlier this year I will never play this excuse of a game again.
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Editado por Crimson Flux: 11/2/2014 5:33:05 PMI feel the same way, WoW may be taking me back soon. I especially agree with the "not wanting your name associated with the story" bit. Have fun elsewhere, and if the DLC reviews well enough, hopefully you'll be starside once more. It's nice to read a post that has structure...
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Holy mother of god.... YES! I vote for you for president!