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#feedback

Editado por aboniks: 11/4/2014 12:55:27 PM
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DeeJ, I became Legend in another universe, so you won't have to read much of my feedback for a while.

Deej, You know my methods; employ them. I'm kicking this filthy habit until your teams can be convinced to quit stomping all over the product. I've got better things to do with my gaming hours (and writing hours) than to run widdershins around the Cosmodrome, opening loot caches that the Fallen don't even bother to protect, in hopes that something fun and not-stupid will appear. Better things such as? [spoiler][i]Kingdoms of Amalur.[/i] The first 60 minutes of that game literally (not figuratively) have more narrative depth to them than the entirety of my 120+ hours in Destiny. I'll go play that for a few weeks/months instead. It's just as pretty as Destiny, in its own way, and the mechanical and conceptual depth of KoA puts the Big D to shame. Plus, I can make my loot. [i] I just love loot, don't you?[/spoiler] [/i]That's right, DeeJ; [i]Fanboy Down[/i]. I finally took the Destiny disc out of my console, midway through leveling a second titan to 29. You've had my hardware tied up for over a month, on the strength of the gunplay, Titan mobility, visuals, and the soundtrack. And the hope that you'd make it grand at some point. I've had it with your toy. Why give up on your pretty little grind-by-design crackpipe of a product now? Because grinding another toon up to the cap is obligatory tedium, the servers are full of farm animals, and playing any more of it at this point makes no sense. The story missions aren't worth rehashing again even if there [i]were[/i] appropriate activity rewards for doing them, the crucible is unrewarding both materially and emotionally, the [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/76847338]VoG is a broken one-armed bandit[/url], and strikes are full of quitters because of your jacked up bounties. Patrol, the only thing I really enjoyed, has been utterly ignored since release, aside from depopulating it as a bandaid for the RNG loot fiasco, when you could have increased the replay value there exponentially with those same simple RNG-based tactics that your dev team seems to have such a hardon for. So much potential, so totally squandered. Just wait until the kids realize engram drops are more likely when you kill more than one critter with a single attack...all the caves are loot caves now...yay loot! Nothing gets harder, or changes, gains complexity, or reacts to our "discoveries" and "adventures". The damned walkers don't even have randomly shielded legs and spawn as ultras. Why would they, right? [b]They never walk anywhere, but everybody would laugh if you called them "Devil Sitters".[/b] There's no patrol hard mode, because easy mode is the same no matter how "powerful" you get. We stole the sum total of an alien races knowledge and got...well nothing. Then we looted the Archive; nadda. Discovered an ancient AI that runs planetary defense networks and quotes Madame Blavatksy... [i]Yeah, nice work kid, here's another gun.[/i] TDB is coming out soon, and you guys have "repackaged" the story into the exotic bounty format. Whatever that actually means, it doesn't sound like an improvement. It sounds like another incoherent stream of disjointed vignettes that bear no relation to the world in which our characters are supposed to be acting; much like the first 20 missions turned out to be. It sounds like you folks took our criticism of the story and treated it as criticism of your delivery technique. It sounds like (oh, how I hope I'm wrong about this) another opportunity to make PvE focused players muck around in your precious Crucible in order to make it take longer for them get where they (think they) want to be. Just so there's no confusion here: Delivery is a [b]tiny[/b] part of the problem. Cutscenes are fine, voiceover in loading screens and mid-action are also fine. We're rarely critiquing delivery methods. We're critiquing [b]substance[/b]. The story, such as it is, is contradictory, banal, and illogical. I'm not sure how or why your teams managed to make something so short and stupid-simple fit the action around it so poorly, and failed to connect it to the rest of the game so utterly. It doesn't fit the core game mechanics that you guys built to go along with it; it doesn't even stand on its own well enough to be read [i]with feeling[/i] by professional actors. In a single word, it's [b]amateurish[/b]. I say this as an amateur writer: I would be embarrassed to release the story your company tacked onto this game under my name. Did the writers even play the missions they were writing dialog for? Because...if they did, then I may finally have seen evidence on which one could build a decent argument against recreational marijuana; One mission does not flow to the next, in any sense other than the temporal. There is no reason FOR any of it to happen the way it happens, there are no motivations, no reason to care, no consequences for success or failure. But you know what the worst part is, for me? Worse than illogic, worse than simplistic after-school-special dialog, worse than a story with a bad beginning that lowers the bar with every chapter? Worse than a plot so awful that it appears to have required more effort to make it suck this comprehensively than it would have taken to write one that made sense? "Winning" doesn't [i]matter[/i]. Clear the Black Garden...yay. Kill Sepiks Prime...yay. Take territory for Dead Obit...yay. Nothing happens. The sense of progress is painfully artificial, and temporary. No territory is taken. No character is developed. No legends are made. No changes are wrought. No City is saved. [i]No Darkness was harmed in the making of this film.[/i] You've got the Strangers Rifle, but she has to leave in the middle of the party! Now what? She's off to fight Darth Vader with a Khvostov while I fight Sepiks Prime for the ninetieth time. Do it [i]again[/i]? For heavens sake man, [i]WHY BOTHER?[/i] It didn't change anything, we didn't learn anything, we didn't get any more powerful, we didn't save anything, the children are still frightened anyway, and the City still doesn't even believe we exist. That's what killed it for me in the end. I know there are some people there in the building with you who understand this already. Some people who care about stories more than they care about analytics, accounting, and time-to-kill. I hope you're one of them. I hope you make friends with the people that will be hired to pull this tragically bad narrative off the cutting room floor and make something beautiful out of it, and I hope they're bright young things with excellent skin and fantastic imaginations. I hope you fight for them and support them in those team meetings when they push for something more substantial than ket vectors and cryptic pronoun-sauce. Most of all, I hope they get a chance to tell a story that makes some -blam!-ing sense next time. I hope they get a recording budget and they can wipe the slate clean and rewrite those first 20 missions the way they should have been written in the first place. When the next hatchet man from accounting comes looking for somewhere inconsequential to prune the Bungie tree, and says that no one in the modern gaming market [i]really cares[/i] about [i]why[/i] we're murdering the same alien for the 32.767th time, I hope they have the integrity to gather up their scripts, form ranks, and collectively spit in his coffee while telling him to -blam!- off down the way towards the foosball tables. [b]Because it isn't science fiction when the fiction is missing. Gamifying the act of repeatedly shooting things in the face may be well trodden ground in a culture that uses violence as coin of the realm, but when there's no story to tell, no world to protect, no point to the endless orgy of death other than [i]"give me your purse, (alien) bitch"[/i], it's a pretty shitty way to make a living. It's quite fitting that the only artist in the Destiny universe is an old lady who can't remember that she's actually supposed to be [i]selling paint[/i].[/b] Here's your personal actionable points, DeeJ: Stand up for the new writers, put your foot down for the fans of the engine that hated the plot, don't let bar charts take the field in team meetings. Never forget story; "Why We Fight" needs to be the most compelling part of any work of conflict-entertainment that you expect to last longer than fifteen minutes, let alone for years of repeat business. Only Bungie could have made the engine and gussied it up the way you did...but my ten year old can pick apart the plot. Stand up for the people who can fix that. Stand up to people who think that a player who spends 100+ hours grinding mats to hit the endgame isn't worth listening to because they played on past some arbitrary limit and magically became your toadies instead of customers who have opinions that carry weight...[b][i]because you don't have a franchise if we don't care enough to hit the 100 hour mark and look forward to hitting 500.[/i][/b] Anyway, that's me, off to Amalur (and buying their DLC instead). I'll probably come back after the next update to see what you've convinced the dev team to care about. If the patch notes are incredibly informative and inspiring, I may even log in. For the forum folks reading this: Don't everybody rush to tell me how little I'll be missed over the next few weeks as I [i]don't[/i] grind out upgrade mats to improve guns that have irrelevant stats so that I can kill things that all take equalized damage anyway. I'm well aware of how quickly special snowflakes melt around here. This letter isn't really for you anyway. /puddle EDIT: Also, I like tacos.

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  • You sir, are my hero! I can sum up my feelings in one simple word thanks to your honest and refreshing narrative. .. "DITTO!"

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  • Editado por Psychosniper98: 11/30/2014 6:32:49 AM
    Bump and as an overall fan of both the PvP and PvE aspects of Bungies past game so have to say that the raid and crucible are the only reasons I ever play and they aren't that good. The fighting is smooth but it's always the same class specs with that or this gun that I see others getting kills with. I like Reach on the other hand because while the story wasn't inspiring it was in depth and the pvp was a skill game and nothing else

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  • Tldr. But I found KOA to be boring and repetitive. The combat was stiff and the story slow and dry. Dark Souls on the other hand. Mmmmmm

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    • Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bungie's lead writer quit during the development of Destiny? I guess he was too embarrassed to have his name associated with the shit story that Destiny turned out to be. In fact, destiny is so bad, it's the only game I exclusively play with friends because it's too damn tedious, grindy, and very boring. In fact, if my friends quit playing, I'd trade it in. Guess I'll still keep playing the raid and crucible until then.

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    • Excellent post. Well said and spot on. The most disapointing aspect of this whole mess of a game to me is Bungie/Activisions unwillingness to admit to any significant changes being made prior to release beyond your typical Dev cuts. It's obvious something big went down when the creative team leader/writer suddenly departed. Everyone knows it. They know we know it and that there is an outcry about it. But they'd rather we "focus on the future" and tell them how to make their slop game better than ask, hey wait a minute what happened to this, and this and that. My suggestion for making your games better Bungie. Give people what you actually friggin sold them on. Seems to me you had a ton of great ideas already before you sold out to the monsters of this industry. It's not even about how unsatisfying this game is to me anymore. It's about wanting know how an almost finished AAA game 5 yrs in the making and 500 million dollars later changed so much. What happened to the game you showed us? How did it devolve into this empty husk so fast and so abrupy? I remember playing the beta and afterwards being excited to see what was missing and what was yet to come based on everything Bungie themselves hyped. I'm still waiting.

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    • Bumpidity bump

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    • bumps

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    • Bump

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    • Sorry, got bored. See you next Tuesday.

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    • Spot on, exactly how myself and many others feel. I remember when I first started playing I noticed that the mission wasn't going to be over until I hit a no respawn zone. That started killing the game for me. Now I'm only logging in every Tuesday to do the raid. Sad how Warfare, a free game, has more story and depth than $500 mil Destiny.

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    • Editado por Narzull: 11/4/2014 6:22:57 PM
      Deej needs to read this. Then at every Dev meeting that he goes to read the Bungie mission statement to everyone attending. Develop kick ass games that combine state-of-the-art technology with uncompromising art, [b]captivating storytelling[/b], and deep gameplay. Sell enough copies of those games to fund our ongoing quest for total World Domination.

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    • Iam sure Deej read this

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      • Bungie you know you -blam!-ed up when a post about your game has more substance than the actual game itself!

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      • Editado por dlrgordon: 11/4/2014 5:40:04 PM
        Fantastic post. I hope this stays at the top of the boards for a good long time. As a person who studied literature (English degree), I feel rather cheated when it comes to the story. I'm not expecting Asimov or Gibson level storytelling, but the game has so much potential that this hacked up, illogical excuse for a story feels criminal. I enjoy the controls and gameplay, but I will not be sticking around post-DLC if the narrative doesn't improve dramatically. Keep me interested, Bungie. Aboniks, your post is spot-on. Well done. +1000000000. Edit: Deej, Bungie, et. al., you would be wise to heed the OP's eloquently written words.

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      • On a story note and the writers not playing the game... During the cosmodrome strike, you deactivate 3 stages of trip mines and then clear a small room only to open up into a large court yard where dinklebot tells you the way to the devils layer. The part that always gets me is when he says how we have to get through all those devils to make it however there is only one... One devil walker drops in however the dialogue sounds like there is an army of them. Makes you wonder what the encounter was supposed to be.

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        • Amazing post, you'll probably never read the comments but I've read quite a bit and it's unanimous that this is the most well thought feedback post here. You've eloquently pointed everything out and kept it professional and also a bit humorous, I laughed at some of the jokes, and I agree with everything you've posted. I also really hope this gets read by deej or bungie or someone in that building. Good luck and have fun in KoA I enjoyed it when I played through, I made a character that looks exactly like Terry Crewes so it was even more hilarious and fun playing. I myself left for the newest update in FFXIV.

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          • Good post. Said things many destiny players have been thinking. When the stranger meets you on Venus and leaves in a hurry, I actually got jealous because it sounded like she was on her way to do something that mattered. She's headed off to fend off and attack of some kind on her vessel (which I got from "cut the engines") which seems to hold at least two people, maybe more. Meanwhile my ghost (who is so bored with the story he sounds like he doesn't even want to talk about it) and I will go talk to the queen, and then go on another boring mission. Also, I should be surprised the queen is an awoken, even though the cryptarch and my vanguard mentor are awoken. . .

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          • Very well written post, It's nice to know that there are still intelligent people in this world who know when something is a total con and when its not. I'm not just referring to the little young lings who love to play CoD, I'm talking about the grown, mature people who play this game and are so blind they don't see how mindless this game is, hell at times even worst than CoD. I will trade -in this overpriced Frisbee tomorrow and actually get something worthwhile. cheers.

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            • Don't mind me. I'm just here to keep this post alive.

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            • If there is no official response to this post, I will be disappointed.

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              • Well said, sir. Well said, indeed. I hope this post gets a formal response from DeeJ. Good luck in your writing career.

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              • Bump! He summed up the issues rather well in my opinion.

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              • Deej replies do someone complaining about people doing strikes "too fast" and not this? Anyway bump and good night.

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                • Wow, not a single grammatical error. This was one of the few complaining posts that I actually enjoyed reading. Hope your writing career takes off.

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                • This Destiny is supposed to lay the groundwork for what is to come. As such it needed to grab our attention and make us want to be invested in the universe. It didn't. Bungie, you want a set-up to a story and universe building that will grab you almost instantly? Check out "Attack on Titan" episode one. In less than 30 minutes they had me for the whole season. As far as games go? The opening mission in ME:1, had everything you needed to get your attention as well as introducing the basic mechanics of the game. For me, there was no turning back, I was hooked.

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                  • Shut up, M--wait. That was actually very well put. Enjoy KoA, it's a decent game. I sincerely hope the storytelling in Destiny improves.

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