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Editado por Tyger:
8/16/2014 5:47:58 PM
145
Statistical proof Hand Cannons are trash
[b]UPDATE: Hand cannons have been confirmed to be buffed alongside pulse rifles. Let this thread die[/b]
So with all the hand canon threads I've seen around the forums, I decided to test just how well it stacked up against the scout rifle. All tests were done with 45 attack guns with no boosting gear or upgrades. The target was a level 2 vandal. The hand canon and scout rifle had identical impact bars. All shots were fired from point blank range. The pulse and auto rifles were done just for fun, I ran out of ammo before I could do a damage per second test on them.
Hand canon
202 damage per headshot
66 rounds
Max damage potential
202 x 66 = 13,332
Next I shot the gun as fast as possible for a minute straight, In order to factor in reload times.
Rounds per minute: 60
With reloading factored in you're only getting off one round per second, making max DPS 202.
Damage per minute is 12,120.
Scout
192 per headshot
195 rounds
Max damage potential
192 x 195 = 37,440
Ouch. Massively better than the HC
Now the scout rifle I used had a measly 15 rounds in the magazine. I've found other ones with much more.
Rounds per minute 112
192 x 112 = 21,504 damage per minute. Utterly destroying the hand canons numbers.
This makes damage per second 358.4
Obviously the scout rifle is just about better than the hand canon in every way. If anyone has a suggestion for another test I could do, or wants to add data of their own feel free.
And just for fun...
Pulse
65 per headshot
195 per burst
315 rounds
Max damage potential
65 x 315 = 20,475
Auto
88 per headshot
315 rounds
Max damage potential
88 x 315 =27,720
Edit: as per another users request, I repeated the experiment on a level 8 acolyte and a level 9 hive knight. The results were the same, however the damage dealt by both guns was reduced against the knight
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[spoiler][url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/66862059?sort=0&page=0[/url][/spoiler] Hi.
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Thanks for the benchmark stats. It's a lot easier to see why now.
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3 RespuestasNew interview says that they are going to buff the hand cannons because nobody liked using them in the beta. The are also supposedly going to rework autorifles. I hope they remake them so they can be "fanned" for a heavy six shot burst. That would make them more viable for everything but also maybe OP.
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My qoute from Destiny Beta/Alpha "When using the Hand Canon in pvp, you gotta get freaky with it"-Me
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2 RespuestasThey've been addressed along with Pulse rifles, haven't they?! Some ign interview, I think. Either way. Nice data collection.
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5 RespuestasWhy can't they just be secondaries... (ಠ_ಠ)
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During my own play I just happened to notice that there were plenty of enemies I could kill with one or two head shots from the hand cannon that would take three of four with the scout rifle. Also, and I could be mistaken, I did notice that it was alot easier to get a head shot from hip firing with the hand cannon.
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3 RespuestasBump for hand cannon hipsters
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The hand canon is useless at range and still not as good up close so I really hope they do huge changes to the hand canon for launch
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My scout rifle does 216 per headshot
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They need to make them viable some how. Such a cool idea lol
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2 RespuestasStatistically, it's not good, but it's hella fun to use!!
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4 RespuestasHow are you testing with servers down?
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4 Respuestas#eatasnickers bruh
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This is your opinion. [spoiler]<3 It had to be done[/spoiler]
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2 RespuestasThis is an interesting argument. Scout vs Hand Cannon. The number don't lie, but that's on the surface. Let's not go stamping it with 202 max damage per shot for HC 192 max damage per shot Scout Fair enough, right? The most it can do with a headshot on a target. Now the thing is you go for potential damage within a minute. That's well and good, but side by side damage is where things shift. In 6 shots the HC will do 1212 damage and in 6 shots Scout does 1152. Only a 60 point gap. In that limited scope the HC does more damage. In the 15 shots a HC does 3030 and the Scout does 2880. Nearly a 150 point gap. Course that's a shot by shot comparison. Rate of fire and reload time help Scout to pull ahead of HC. But I've seen gears that increase HC reload and then those that increase Scout's ammo count. Also a HC that increases reload with each kill and a Scout that increased damage after reload. Constantly there will be good and bad versions of each gun, but with some work they manage to do the job. FYI I prefer Pulse, but couldn't find a decent HC or Scout.
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11 RespuestasEditado por M37h3w3: 7/30/2014 4:39:31 PMYou say statistical proof but you only post a narrow range of stats, one of which is only partially relevant. You can't arrive at such a conclusion with so little data. Maximium potential damage is a half pointless figure has enemies drop ammo. The only time I ran close to dry was during miniboss/boss fights. At which point more mobs spawned with the specific purpose of getting shot for their ammo. You're also seemingly ignoring other factors such as amount of aim assist while only comparing DPS. Raw DPS only matters if the target is completely stationary and is focused on something else so you can just throw lead at it. If it breaks offs, moves, or does other things to interrupt the DPS flow, the comparison becomes muddied and nigh useless. Not to mention that by your own data, the Hand Cannons actually have a higher top end damage. 202 compared to 192. That higher damage can mean the difference between a dead Titan or a Titan Fisting you. Sure it's tot a lot but things are still likely to change between the Beta and Retail. There's also the potential differences in handling of the weapons. I never got a decent Hand Cannon or Scout Rifle myself but I would at least figure that Hand Cannons aren't going to excel at cross mapping like the Scout Rifle can, nor will Scout Rifles be able in CQC areas that the Hand Cannons seem designed for. Handling of the weapon matters too because combat is not just a complete standstill while two motionless players (or player and NPC) plink away at each other. And at this point we're comparing apples to oranges using highly specific and incomplete data using a stat that highly situational. Finally: Randomized drops. Even if Hand Cannons prove to be objectively inferior, not everyone is going to get two completely equal weapons until players hit the "endgame." A low ranked Scout Rifle still won't be better than a higher ranked Hand Cannon.
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This only proves that the scout is better with a limit on ammo. There were hardly any spots where there was limited ammo. The only place was against the devil walker and even there adds are spawned that can drop ammo. Your data also shows that with unlimited ammo, the hand canon is better. You also made a comment about DPS... If DPS is the most important thing then we should all use the auto rifle because it shoots the fastest. And if you are good enough then you should be able to aim the auto rifle good enough to make the hits count. Hand canon still has the most top end damage of any primary per shot. Does it need a slight boost to reload or something? Maybe. But your data for prove it has the most top end damage and is not worthless.
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2 RespuestasI'd like to report an error... not in your math, but your description. I'm pretty sure you meant "45 [i]attack [/i] guns"
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Screw that, it destroys stuff, and fast, headshots are key, o striped one.
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I think the hand cannons take longer to reload, but shoot a little faster than scout rifles.
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Well that's like, your opinion bro.
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6 Respuestas...Proof the Hand Cannon Works. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1538969309658169&set=vb.100006353434076&type=2&theater
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15 RespuestasThat moment when you realize that this doesn't mean crap so long as you are actually good with a weapon. because frankly I trash people with my HC weather they have a scout, auto, pulse, sniper, shotgun, BF machine gun, or rockets. just not pulse rifles, those are broke as sheet. charge one up before entering a room and lay waste to the first guy you see in there instantly.
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It does stagger enemies much more than other weapons which is good for stopping melee enemies.
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3 RespuestasI'm pro hand cannon and deadly with it maybe you just don't have a hand steady enough to get precision kills with it so you need a rifle it's ok to admit it we're all friends here :p
