I’d say people on the forums can be the really toxic ones. A lot of conversations instantly devolve into mudslinging. (Usually it’s the exact same people acting the exact same way. Keep an eye on their names and you’ll recognize their patterns) But forum users only account for a percentage of the entire player population. Heck, some here don’t even play the game anymore, but can’t seem to stop b*tching. In the game though, I feel there’s a layer of complexity to it. The amount of times I’ve run GMs via lfg, only to come across a blueberry hoping nobody notices they’re trying to get carried, is frustrating to say the least. Or getting a rando to fill a spot in a raid through lfg, only to have one show up with the most god awful ego and attitude. Or have someone constantly talking over you while you’re trying to teach them a dungeon, only to watch them die instantly when an encounter starts. Now replay those scenarios over and over and over. Watch it repeat on and off for years. You get to a certain “f*ck it” mentality. We all play the game because it’s entertainment. So we want it to be fun and we want to achieve a specific goal. (Clear raid/gm/dungeon, go flawless, etc) And on the flip side, we’ve all been carried and been a “burden” at some point. Those two situations can conflict. That doesn’t mean being a straight up @$$hat is ok. But while some are just d*cks because of their true colors, others are probably tired of trying or failing thanks to teammates, and want to focus on their own enjoyment. It’s a game, you’re supposed to have fun. TLDR: it’s a grey area i.m.o. But yeah, anonymity breeds toxicity. That’s true of all online things.

There's also a large quantity of players that have insecurity about lacking experience, specifically in the "solo player" area. On a post complaining about not being able to do an activity solo, I'll offer help nicely so they can get the loot just to be backlashed with the typical "You're an elitist and I don't want your help" literally just for offering to help

I agree, this community is part of the problem when it comes to driving both new and old players away. Unfortunately, Bungie aren't doing anything to bring in or keep new players either 😂

You pay across to the content. Acting entitled about carrying people is idiotic if you’re good enough to carry some guardians then great if not that’s up to your lack of skill.

Dude i’m a mf 7 year veteran and i get booted from lfg groups like what the f is this GOD COMPLEX?! elitism is not the answer. And to hell with your meta garbage

You lost me at gatekeeping.

Being kind doesn't really cost you much of anything, and assuming everyone else is wrong or malicious is typically wrong when in reality they are usually closer to yourself than you may realize or care to admit. That being said it is all to easy to dismiss others as irrelevant and the anonymity of the internet doesn't help anyone's manners, so there really isn't much one can do about it other than trying to be the best person you can, since that is the only perspective you can change. Just try to remember the other person reading your posts is human too, with their own faults and insecurities, so there is no need for personal attacks. (Bungie as a collective does need to get their act together though, since they keep making the strangest decisions.)

I hate myself, so I play Destiny 2.

There's some legitimacy to this but please, be sure to include the rabble that don't even play the game anymore (if they ever did) who can't seem to find something better to do with their free time than to come onto the forum with no intentions other than to provoke and instigate others. Also, some of those alleged "victims" of community toxicity bring more than their share of it with them.

Teaching > carrying. Teaching people how to do raids and other endgame is far better for endgame then carrying people.

Okay I'm gonna engage with this post to shed some much needed light. Gatekeeping isn't a thing on here. It never has been. It's been the convenient excuse most people run to when they know what they need to do / bring to endgame but get told no because they're wasting other people's time. That's my general perspective. It's also why I quit being a sherpa. An arguably.....Carrying people through the game isn't helpful. It's detrimental. As they don't learn anything. Help sure. But don't ever carry them. "But they might not have enough time to put into the game".......Bruh.....you don't need to sink your life into the game. You honestly don't. They'll either have the time or they won't. If they don't that's not our problem. It's theirs. The toxicity present in Destiny as a whole. Comes from a few aspects of the community. The lazy casual (the people who want a free pass and carry) and the hardcore perfectionists (the people who lose their minds when it's not flawless). Cut them out of the game and you'd see a drastic shift. But sadly it's not happening. While yes we need newer players......it's not us to do Bungie's work for them. The new light experience and the campaigns don't teach you everything you need to know. That burden gets shoved onto the veterans of the game......which it shouldn't. I'll say it one more time though.........Gatekeeping here is an full fledged myth. It's not a thing.

It’s as simple as this: if the game can’t retain new players, then the game needs to fundamentally change. The new player experience is crap, PVP is a mess, all new dungeons and raids now HAVE to have contest mode for fake, artificial hype and the player base is filled with elitist jerks who wear their time wasted like a badge of honor. Who tf would want to play a game like that? Seriously, the only people who play this game still after years are people who are burnouts, unhappy, or are addicted, because no SENSIBLE person would lmao.

This. I used to do sherpas, but the game became too complex for helping people. The new player experience is just embarrassing at this point.

I agree to your post. But beside the toxic Gitgut and Skillissue snobs.... There are still some experienced nice people trying to help others.

[quote]You do realize that we as a community are really crappy right? Every game has trolls but this community is terrible about driving away new players. So many have this high and mighty complex about how the game needs to be challenging so you can lord over others. News flash. Game ain't hard. Just tedious and time consuming because bungie just likes to make numbers bigger. (Your power level for example) Endgame content should not be about gatekeeping. I miss the days of being able to carry other players without them needing to dedicate as much time as me. It feels good to help others. And that feeling has been completely taken away to cater to the self appointed "elites." A lot of these newer players turn to the forums but yall just can't help attacking them left and right. We need newer players. This post will most likely change nothing but if even ONE of you goes " Hey maybe I should stop doing this" I'll call it a success. For those of you who still feel like being jerks you're welcome to prove my point.[/quote] Toxicity has caused so many negative game changes that it's part of the reason I barely log on once a week, if that. I'm so tired of everything being a long damage rotation. I'm fine with it if I'm farming raids with sweats or speed runners (which I've done successfully for many years), but needing that for normal mode content to get the same 2 phase boss kills I used to get with a linear fusion rifle just gets on my nerves. The balance is terrible. The newest raid is a pain to do and even more annoying to teach. This game is aimed solely at people who wear their play times proudly. I have 2900 hours on raids and 1700 raid clears, and I bring that up a lot, but it's not to make people feel bad or push Bungie to make the game harder for me specifically. All my posts are for letting up a bit and making the game more beginner friendly. Bungie doesn't listen to me. I'm not a toxic sweat. I'm a friendly sweat.

I couldn't agree more. As a developer, I would actively be pushing against the elites, driving out as much of them and their toxicity as I could. Income is important, but ignoring the demands of the worst of the worst sets a precedent that toxicity is not well tolerated here, and it would hopefully alleviate it overall, through time. People need to be shown there is a zero tolerance barrier. They don't need anything, and certainly don't deserve it. The average person is the only people this game, and others like it should be trying to push for in both development and community, because that's the majority. As a developer and/or gamer you can never get rid of toxic elitism, but you can at least push it out of the way and focus on the better majority. Building for the majority allows more people to attain more goals, and as the elite pools whittle down to sporadic puddles, showcasing who the real elites are, there's alot more room for more people to make a splash and find a common, respectable ground with others. Fuggin' community. True, respectable elites are willing to help and grow communities and players. They don't ask for metas to exploit. They don't ask for things like unhinged, unrealistic matchmaking in PvP activities to exploit. All just to stroke ego, because they can't handle not being recognised for their self perceived "greatness" that drives their awful behavior. They are terrified of even grounds because it makes them "average", and shows they aren't as special as they put out there. True elites understand majority rules, don't need a flex, or to be recognized. They do what they do because they love it. Its better when it happens naturally anyway. True elites tend to stick around just for communities, quite often, because it is about the whole experience, not just playing the game.

The biggest issue with destiny is that the devs constantly confuse the word "challenging" with tedious, and conflating "community" with "customers"

There is a very simple way to fix people being "toxic". Let us have fun, fix bugs, stop making the game for top %, make NEW content, hire an actual good writer. You can't be mad at players that are sick of slowly watching a game they love be neglected and what feels like intentionally sabotaged at times. You only get this volume of toxicity when a developer has ignored their community.