[quote]Your suggestions would also nerf bubble how would you work around that. What changes would you make to bubble.[/quote] How would that nerf bubble?

If it new boss attack methods to counter stationary damage phases it could very well be possible that using bubble during damaging phases would be hurt. Along if the bosses attacks can launch you out of bubble. Besides if well changes bubble will just take its place. How would you alter this.

[quote]If it new boss attack methods to counter stationary damage phases it could very well be possible that using bubble during damaging phases would be hurt. Along if the bosses attacks can launch you out of bubble. Besides if well changes bubble will just take its place. How would you alter this.[/quote] You can’t shoot at an enemy while you’re protected by a bubble. In situations where a boss would enter or destroy your bubble, you can use banner shield as your portable protection. The point of this post is to request encounter design that promotes different approaches to content other than always standing still in a well.

But if bubble does not change than the method in which well is used will be replaced by bubble, as banner shield only gives frontal protection. On that same note helm of Saint 14 does not provide enough benefit at this time to warrant use.

[quote]But if bubble does not change than the method in which well is used will be replaced by bubble, as banner shield only gives frontal protection. On that same note helm of Saint 14 does not provide enough benefit at this time to warrant use.[/quote] Bubble does protect you while allowing you to attack. In any scenario where you could use it, you would still need to be actively moving. Banner shield only needs to protect your front. Use positioning to you advantage.

So your suggestion is to not use bubble and instead use banner shield, if encounters were to be redeveloped for non stationary damage phases. At which point it bubble because redundant for anything other than being a panic button.

[quote]So your suggestion is to not use bubble and instead use banner shield, if encounters were to be redeveloped for non stationary damage phases. At which point it bubble because redundant for anything other than being a panic button.[/quote] I was quite clear. [quote]In situations where a boss would enter or destroy your bubble, you can use banner shield as your portable protection. The point of this post is to request encounter design that promotes different approaches to content other than always standing still in a well.[/quote]

And I am asking that if encounters are changed, what would you suggest as a rework to bubble. As your encounter suggestions would be an indirect nerf to the currently existing bubble.

[quote]And I am asking that if encounters are changed, what would you suggest as a rework to bubble. As your encounter suggestions would be an indirect nerf to the currently existing bubble.[/quote] Bubble doesn’t need changes. In no way would what I am suggesting be a nerf.

[quote]First is to the game design. More bosses need to have attacks like Rhulk. Indicators of where their attacks are going to land should be displayed on the ground in the area that they’re going to attack. We have almost nothing outside of stationary fights in the game. And when you can essentially ignore the bosses attacks as you out heal them, almost every boss ends up feeling the same. Second, Well needs a complete rework. Standing still in a circle that protects you and buffs your damage promotes the stale and stationary gameplay. you wouldn’t be playing the highest difficulty content while standing still and ignoring every enemy attack as you mindlessly shoot your gun.[/quote] Bubble promotes "stale and stationary" boss fights by letting you stand in a circle that protects you and buffs your damage letting you ignore everything around you mindlessly. So if well is changed in how it works during boss fights and bubble stays the same either 1. People will stop using it and just use bubble for the exact same effect. 2. People still won't use bubble for dps because they find it less convenient than well and will use a strand titan to compensate the loss of dr. You also stated for bosses to have damage indicators on the ground. Which if they are going to perform a ground attack, bubble will not protect you forcing you to leave and have no additional survivability outside of that circle.

[quote] Bubble promotes "stale and stationary" boss fights by letting you stand in a circle that protects you and buffs your damage letting you ignore everything around you mindlessly. So if well is changed in how it works during boss fights and bubble stays the same either 1. People will stop using it and just use bubble for the exact same effect. 2. People still won't use bubble for dps because they find it less convenient than well and will use a strand titan to compensate the loss of dr. You also stated for bosses to have damage indicators on the ground. Which if they are going to perform a ground attack, bubble will not protect you forcing you to leave and have no additional survivability outside of that circle.[/quote] Bubble does not allow you to damage enemies while it protects you… Already went over this. Well is being changed to be less effective. If only encounters were changed, then well would just ignore the changes or require the changes to go overboard. Bubble does not have the problem that well does. Ground indicators show where the boss is going to attack. It doesn’t not mean that the attack had to be a melee attack. Taniks has indicators during his final stand. Bubble protects you.

You as a player are capable of damaging bosses while standing on the edge of bubble as long as your gun protrudes outside of the bubble giving you protection and allowing you to deal damage concurrently. You can also just strafe in and out of bubble during damage phases all it does is restrict how effective some heavies become. For what point would you then need ground indicators for a bosses attacks, as the attacks could always just be aggressive enough to kill you if your standing in a well.

[quote]You as a player are capable of damaging bosses while standing on the edge of bubble as long as your gun protrudes outside of the bubble giving you protection and allowing you to deal damage concurrently. You can also just strafe in and out of bubble during damage phases all it does is restrict how effective some heavies become. For what point would you then need ground indicators for a bosses attacks, as the attacks could always just be aggressive enough to kill you if your standing in a well.[/quote] Armor of light does not protect you if you’re not fully in the bubble. Damage you take is not healed when entering the bubble. If you need portable protection, banner shield exists. Having different options be ideal for for different situations is good game design. Well gives you very high dr and healing. The attacks would be overturned for everything else if they all killed you in a well. Well is a problem. It gets fixed, but everything else around it.

Damage you take can be negated through bastion which can work to keep you alive while you partially outside bubble with most of your hot box fully protect by bubble. You say that increasing boss damage would overtune it for everything, yet there are plenty of instances where you can be killed inside of a well by non-boss enemies. Not to mention your removal of dr from well would make anything that can oneshot kill you with the same efficiency while in well.

[quote]Damage you take can be negated through bastion which can work to keep you alive while you partially outside bubble with most of your hot box fully protect by bubble. You say that increasing boss damage would overtune it for everything, yet there are plenty of instances where you can be killed inside of a well by non-boss enemies. Not to mention your removal of dr from well would make anything that can oneshot kill you with the same efficiency while in well.[/quote] Bastion provides a void OS. That’s nowhere near as strong as well. Bubble does not let you attack while you’re protected. There is a reason why it never once caused the problem that well is currently causing. Stop trying to make up reasons that it could. Nothing on normal difficulty is capable of killing you out of a well. And only a select very few are capable on the highest difficulty. You’re just continuing to try and come up with random nonsensical reasons. Bubble doesn’t need changes.

What on normal difficulty should kill you period, not to mention while your are using your super. Stop denying that your claims are not entirely true. So what if bastion gives a void is that just means you don't take health damage while clipping out of bubble for damage meaning you do not need to heal while in well you have not physical cover so healing is needed. The claims that bubble has never caused the problems you are addressing is because what you claim as problems is playing the game effectively. Moving more than strafing during damage means a loss of DPS. Well and bubble even without damage boost offer effective DPS because you can stay alive without having to constantly reposition. Your post only half addresses this point saying only well should be reworked while ignoring the fact that bubble can be just as effective. People complain about bubble constantly. What do you think was the go to in raids before well even released, it was bubble and sentinel. People just forget that bubble was once the only full defensive super in d2 (sentinel is both add clear and defensive depending on builds).

[quote]What on normal difficulty should kill you period, not to mention while your are using your super. Stop denying that your claims are not entirely true. So what if bastion gives a void is that just means you don't take health damage while clipping out of bubble for damage meaning you do not need to heal while in well you have not physical cover so healing is needed. The claims that bubble has never caused the problems you are addressing is because what you claim as problems is playing the game effectively. Moving more than strafing during damage means a loss of DPS. Well and bubble even without damage boost offer effective DPS because you can stay alive without having to constantly reposition. Your post only half addresses this point saying only well should be reworked while ignoring the fact that bubble can be just as effective. People complain about bubble constantly. What do you think was the go to in raids before well even released, it was bubble and sentinel. People just forget that bubble was once the only full defensive super in d2 (sentinel is both add clear and defensive depending on builds).[/quote] You shouldn’t be able to die on normal difficulty? So no normal raids or dungeons should be able to kill you? If you’re getting a void OS from bastion, bubble isn’t going anything for you. Again, you cannot deal damage to targets outside of a bubble while it’s protecting you. There is a frown why bubble has never been problematic like well despite being in the game for longer. In now way does it need a nerf. It has not been a boss damage pick since Destiny 1. It was in Destiny 2 for a whole year before Well and was never once a requirement for staying alive. Its use in D1 was related to its damage buff. That’s not an issue with how damage buffs are handled in D2.

Would you consider raids and dungeons normal difficulty, when things like strikes are the base difficulty aka normal. If you want to not have good protection during damage phases and constantly need to reposition that's on you, well doesn't need a nerf for you to play that way. It is not an issue of the supers functionality it that is provides sufficient healing and dr, it is an issue of lack of support options and of players constantly pushing for its use to optimize encounters which is shown how players also demand strand titans for the same dr and healing. If one thing is being singled out as a problem, also address everything that brings about the "stale and stationary" play style that you don't like. Hence why if you think well needs changes, bubble as it's sister super should also be addressed. I myself think that well and bubble are fine, and that Bungie needs to add more support supers to the game so that people have more options. You can still damage enemies outside of bubble while being protected by bubble, is just counter your claim of bubble not providing heals. It is because it doesn't need to to perform its job while well does need to heal to perform its job. The picture your trying to paint is one where well gets nerfed via direct changes to function and indirectly via changes to encounters. You still neglect to see that changing encounter models affect bubble the same way it affects well as bubble is more than just a safety circle with no purpose more than blocking damage. If you don't care to suggest a bubble change to make it less stationary then I will. Ward of dawn: super energy drains over the duration of 20 seconds during which all buffs persist. Upon cast grants buffs to nearby allies Armor of light, a 60% dr is given Weapons of light, 25% damage buff Blessing of light, grants a void overshield with 50% dr that stacks with armor, refreshs ability cooldowns, and doubles the health and damage of abilities. Blessing last 10 sec and triggers twice during super duration. There is always room for improvement.

[quote]Would you consider raids and dungeons normal difficulty, when things like strikes are the base difficulty aka normal. If you want to not have good protection during damage phases and constantly need to reposition that's on you, well doesn't need a nerf for you to play that way. It is not an issue of the supers functionality it that is provides sufficient healing and dr, it is an issue of lack of support options and of players constantly pushing for its use to optimize encounters which is shown how players also demand strand titans for the same dr and healing. If one thing is being singled out as a problem, also address everything that brings about the "stale and stationary" play style that you don't like. Hence why if you think well needs changes, bubble as it's sister super should also be addressed. I myself think that well and bubble are fine, and that Bungie needs to add more support supers to the game so that people have more options. You can still damage enemies outside of bubble while being protected by bubble, is just counter your claim of bubble not providing heals. It is because it doesn't need to to perform its job while well does need to heal to perform its job. The picture your trying to paint is one where well gets nerfed via direct changes to function and indirectly via changes to encounters. You still neglect to see that changing encounter models affect bubble the same way it affects well as bubble is more than just a safety circle with no purpose more than blocking damage. If you don't care to suggest a bubble change to make it less stationary then I will. Ward of dawn: super energy drains over the duration of 20 seconds during which all buffs persist. Upon cast grants buffs to nearby allies Armor of light, a 60% dr is given Weapons of light, 25% damage buff Blessing of light, grants a void overshield with 50% dr that stacks with armor, refreshs ability cooldowns, and doubles the health and damage of abilities. Blessing last 10 sec and triggers twice during super duration. There is always room for improvement.[/quote] Normal difficulty literally refers to the base elected difficulty level. Enemies in a normal raid hit as hard as enemies in a normal strike. And again, enemies cannot kill you in a well unless you’re on the highest difficulty and it’s one of maybe 3 enemy types. Even then, you can just stack an extra dr source to survive. No super should make you immortal in any activity while letting you fight back. Without restrictions. Bubble doesn’t have the issue of well since you cannot fight while it protects you. Bubble is not well. Well is obviously not fine. Every single activity has well on top. Every boss fight is played out the exact same way. Players complain that they are not allowed to use anything else when joining a group or else they get kicked. It’s an obvious issue that shouldn’t be hard to grasp. And no, bubble doesn’t provide any buffs unless you’re in it entirely. The only way to be partially in the bubble is have your head coming out. If you’re partially in the bubble, not only do you not get buffed, but enemies can still hit you. It has worked this way the entirety of Destiny 2. You probably didn’t know that though since nobody uses it. Not even from before well was added. In order to damage enemies, you must leave the bubble. You cannot stand completely still like you can in well. When you are dealing damage, you are completely unprotected. You do not heal for 100 HP/s and you do not get 50% DR. Bubble lasts 30 second, not 20. Armor of Light is a 300 HP OS and only functions when you’re entirely in the bubble. If any part of you is poking out, you lose the buff. And if it’s an enemy that you can attack in the bubble, you’ll have to leave the bubble and return in order to refresh the OS, it doesn’t passively regenerate. The void OS is 45 HP and regenerates at 10 HP/s, which is 1/10th of what well heals you. It also will not regenerate while damaged like well does. Again, it is not comparable to well. There is an obvious reason why well is used and bubble is not. In no way is bubble problematic like well. Bubble doesn’t need any nerfs or changes to match the proposed changes to encounter design. Well does. It’s that’s simple. There’s a replan why well is confirmed to be getting need with final shape and bubble is not. With the proposed changes to encounter design bubble would be good in some situations and not good in others. The most basic level of good damage design. What part are you struggling with? You’re typing out so much text to say so little.

The part where we as players ask for nerfs to the things that keep us alive. Especially when plenty of games allow players invulnerability while also allowing damage to be dealt, and with it still being possible to die in a well and bubble in less than Gm and master level content. Different types of encounters require different things and there are plenty in the game where well and bubble are unneeded. It is also a point when using them is very much the best play for staying alive or squeaky out that little extra for DPS. I guess you didn't even bother to find out that I'm a void titan main who runs bubble unless I need add clear or doing WR's final boss.

[quote]The part where we as players ask for nerfs to the things that keep us alive. Especially when plenty of games allow players invulnerability while also allowing damage to be dealt, and with it still being possible to die in a well and bubble in less than Gm and master level content. Different types of encounters require different things and there are plenty in the game where well and bubble are unneeded. It is also a point when using them is very much the best play for staying alive or squeaky out that little extra for DPS. I guess you didn't even bother to find out that I'm a void titan main who runs bubble unless I need add clear or doing WR's final boss.[/quote] Only a few enemies can kill you while you’re in a well on Gm difficulty. Lower difficulty enemies cannot. And no, every single boss encounter is approached with well. The closest any boss has gotten to not having well be meta was VotD. Even still it is commonly used. For someone who claims to main void, you sure say a lot of things about bubble that just aren’t true. I’ve had to correct you on more points than not. Even the most basic things like duration, which is displayed on the side of the screen, you got wrong. Well allows you to say completely still as you dps a boss. A boss that is also probably standing compelled still. There is zero need to pay any attention to enemy damage because you with out heal it completely. Bubble is not even remotely comparable. There is no benefit to the game by keeping bosses in the same state as they are now. Having actual boss fight benefits everyone.

The 20 seconds was a proposed rework to bubble to change it to a radial buff, how did you overlook this when I sectioned it off. An actual boss fight is not something you seem to understand in the terms of this game. The premise of a boss fight as is in destiny is to bring a bosses health down to 0 using player damage. As long as that is the goal of a boss fight dealing damage will be priority especially when weapons deal more damage than supers and supers have high cooldowns. The devs could make bosses require to be damaged by abilities which would make well harmful to dealing damage. Or they could make bosses have to take environmental damage that players coordinate to achieve. But nerfing well and making boss mark attacks on the floor won't change anything because standing still to shoot your guns is how this game works. Jumping and sprinting cancels reloads. That means that every second you reposition you lose out on damage, well and bubble permit you to stay alive and use weapons that you would not be able to use otherwise. I'm still waiting to see how you would actually rework all these things to make an actual boss fight, because so far your well idea is just buffing the warlock exotic glaive and the glaive sucks.

[quote]The 20 seconds was a proposed rework to bubble to change it to a radial buff, how did you overlook this when I sectioned it off. An actual boss fight is not something you seem to understand in the terms of this game. The premise of a boss fight as is in destiny is to bring a bosses health down to 0 using player damage. As long as that is the goal of a boss fight dealing damage will be priority especially when weapons deal more damage than supers and supers have high cooldowns. The devs could make bosses require to be damaged by abilities which would make well harmful to dealing damage. Or they could make bosses have to take environmental damage that players coordinate to achieve. But nerfing well and making boss mark attacks on the floor won't change anything because standing still to shoot your guns is how this game works. Jumping and sprinting cancels reloads. That means that every second you reposition you lose out on damage, well and bubble permit you to stay alive and use weapons that you would not be able to use otherwise. I'm still waiting to see how you would actually rework all these things to make an actual boss fight, because so far your well idea is just buffing the warlock exotic glaive and the glaive sucks.[/quote] Perhaps less word salad would help your replies. Bubble is not problematic in any way. It’s a safe spot to take cover. You cannot use it to attack enemies while you are protected. It doesn’t not need changes. It’s not complicated. The mobile version of it is called banner shield. It sacrifices one of your players, but provides protection and higher % damage buff. It doesn’t have use now because well exists. Bubble is stationary protection. Banner shield is mobile protection. What part of that is confusing?

The part where you keep quoting everything instead of just replying. Seems you don't get the point I was making and are not open to the opinions of others.

[quote]The part where you keep quoting everything instead of just replying. Seems you don't get the point I was making and are not open to the opinions of others.[/quote] You’re not making any points, lmao. Why does bubble need changing? It has not been problematic at any point in this game. Changing well doesn’t change that. The need for bubble to be mobile makes zero sense when banner shield exists, lmao. It is not a complex issue.