I would like to talk about playlists first.
Trials: I would say for the most part trials is in an okay spot. The only 2 complaints I have with this playlist is that solo que is a nightmare especially if you are among the upper skill bracket. Being a top 1% player myself, I find myself getting the worst 2 players in the lobby on my team because the lobby balancing thinks 1 really good player with 2 extremely bad players is equivalent to 3 decent players which is not the case at all and almost makes the player feel punished for being good at the game. I really wish that teams were completely random in solo ques so it felt more fair but usually I can pick out the 2 worst kids in the lobby and predict that they are on my team with a 75% success rate which makes me feel like its not random at all. The other change I will talk about in the balance changes section.
Iron Banner: Fortress is not a terrible game mode but not having a kill count makes it feel insanely boring since most people assess their performance by how many kills they got in the game. I think something as simple as a kills column in the stat board would go a long way for pvp enjoyers. Also we need new rewards that incentivize people to play. Of course make sure the new rewards are actually good for either pve or pvp. It would make sense that some of the best gear in the game comes from limited time events like Iron Banner same as Trials.
Casual playlists: When I say casual playlists I mean normal control, survival, crucible labs, etc. There should not be SBMM in these game modes whatsoever. There is already a competitive game mode where you are supposed to sweat like crazy and play people at your own skill level. There is no need to put that same experience in control as well. When I que into control as a high skill player it is an absolute nightmare and I feel like I cant even enjoy myself anymore because I am once again being punished for being good at the game. Since it is casual playlist I would like to sit back and relax and maybe use some off meta loadouts for fun. But because I am in a high skill bracket everybody is playing hard meta trying their hearts out and I feel forced to do the same. Metas are obviously unavoidable as a whole but I dont want to feel like I'm playing comp or trials when I load into a control match. My suggestion would be to make control completely random matchmaking and only take connections into consideration with your new CBMM system.
Competitive: I would say Comp is in a pretty good spot. It can be sweaty and frustrating with the metas at times but nothing directly cause by the way the gamemode itself is designed. Comp is also supposed to feel sweaty so that makes sense. Good job on this one Bungo!
Now lets talk about balance changes. This is always a brutal topic to go over because everybody has their own opinions on things and I'm sure everthing in this game gets complained about by someone. But as someone who is a very high level player and is involved with the pvp community heavily, I would like to address problems that are recognized by the vast majority of the playerbase.
Anteus Wards: Lets talk about the elephant in the room. These boots have been ruining the crucible for far too long. This should be priority #1. I dont really know how you bring these in line honestly. I think the identity of the exotic giving you pure immunity for a short moment is insanely powerful and has little to no counter (besides conditional finality freeze). The only thing I think you guys could do is completely rework the exotic to not give you immunity at all or somehow drastically nerf the ability to proc it. That could be a cooldown or making the mechanics behind procing the shield much more difficult to pull off. Regardless something needs to be done about these boots ASAP.
Supers: I dont necessarily have any major issues with any supers except for 2 supers. I am sure you know what I'm going to mention but it is BUBBLE and WELL. I know bubble just got a nerf but there is still very little counters to it unless you have a super yourself, conditional finality, or witherhoard. And even then using anything but a super to counter a bubble is very difficult to pull off if the player is somewhat aware of whats going on. I also know you guys are working on a nerf to well. But well suffers from the same issues as bubble. There is one big problem with the both of these supers that needs to be addressed and thats its uptime specifically because trials is now a cap zone game mode. These supers alone completely run trials now and you are at an insane disadvantage if you dont use them. Roaming supers were nerfed a while ago on their uptime because of their ability to completely wipe a team and win rounds in trials. This was a sensible change because really strong supers should be harder to get. But now that trials is cap zone, bubble and well do essentially the same thing as a roaming super does now. They give you free win in trials.
Allow me to explain a scenario. The enemy team has 3 wells all with 100 intellect. You win round 1 and 2 and they win round 3. Regardless of how well they performed they will have a well by round 4 before any of us even tho we have shutdown supers and we performed better so far during the game. Now they pop well and win round 4 for free making it 2-2. The orbs from the first well just gave the other 2 warlocks their well as well and we havent gotten a single super yet despite having more kills. Now we get a shutdown super for round 5 to counter the first well then the other well just slams again and wins the round making it 2-3. Now their first well is really close to getting their well again because of all the orbs from their teammates. And the cycle continues and your arent fighting against guns anymore its a battle of constant supers that you cant keep up with because your super charges significantly slower and you dont create a bunch of orbs for free. You should not be able to have 6 wells in a single trials match for a team it is unbeatable.
Guns: A lot of people complain about snipers but tbh I think its a skill issue and they dont have good enough movement to slide out and flinch people. Lightweight shottys could REALLY use some love. They are almost useless now. I dont really care about other shotguns being meta but I would like to see other frames be able to complete to mix things up and give players new options to have fun with. SMG's are still really oppressive and auto rifles are just taking their place as king with their recent buff. So it doesnt really feel like the original issue has been solved. Automatic weapons have been running the crucible now since Ikelos was made craftable. Handcannons (being the most unforgiving of all the primary weapons) should have the highest reward since they have the biggest risk. You essentially guarantee losing a gunfight if you miss a headshot against any other type of primary but still can lose a TTK battle even though you hit all of your headshots to automatic primaries. The logic just doesn't add up for me personally. My biggest complaint would be fusion rifles. The main downside to them is their charge time. However that downside can be easily negated by just spamming your pre charge until you see someone which will almost always allow you to fire as soon as you see a guardian. The main counter to a fusion is to bait out their shots around cover. However, you cant do that if they can cancel the charge if you go into cover. So I think as soon as you charge your fusion rifle shot you should have to commit to the shot. That way they can affectively be countered and they cant cheese their way out of the only downside they have.
I know this was long but I wanted to explain my reasonings and logic behind all of the existing problems and changes that I suggested. Hopefully someone takes the time to at least read this. Hopefully everybodys suggestions make some positive changes to crucible in the future as well!
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Quite like your idea for fusion rifles, forces people to commit to the shot.
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Agree with most of this, but handcannons. They have the highest Aim Assist precision angle of all Primary weapons. They practically aim themselves, especially endgame PvP cannons with Eye of the Storm. Its noticeably more difficult to track with Pulses and Autos, and those weapon types also have disadvantages in the air or against cover. Let autos be good and let the meta change.
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I think handcannons take the most skill tho. Everybody all the sudden gets better when they put an immortal on but as soon as u put a handcannon in their hands they get smoked. Everything has insane aim assist in this game and its not hard to hit shots with any of the primaries either. But I think pulses are in a good spot. Before the no time nerf, the sandbox was in one of the most obnoxious places it has ever been and in my opinion the pulse meta was worse than the smg meta now. But if handcannons were meta i feel like nobody would be able to complain. Nobody says “omg bro he’s using a handcannon what a cheese lord”. If u get rolled by a handcannon player u respect it because it is ultimately the most balanced gun in the game. Im not asking for a handcannon buff. Im just asking for automatic weapons to be brought more in line with single fire weapons in terms of ttk.
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SMGs have been a problem even when auto rifles were bad. Its because SMGs are more forgiving with a higher damage profile, less precision needed, better hipfire accuracy, better aerial accuracy, and Bungie keeps letting them reach past 21 meters (despite keeping sidearms on an effective 17 meter leash...) So I don't think its fair to blame Auto Rifles for SMG's performance and I don't see how bringing up the endgame Trials SMG relates to the AR discussion. Handcannons have been the staple standard of the meta ever since D1. I understand that there is tradition and familiarity there, but ARs have been useless for literally years. The only time they were broken in D2's lifespan were: Y1 Uriel's Gift meta; and Season of Arrivals when they gave 600 Autos the 0.7s TTK of SMGs. I'm willing to compromise and say that ARs should have range equal to Handcannons, not greater. HCs only reaching 37m tops while very easy to use ARs like Ammit hit nearly 39m is a tad overkill. Its only been a couple of weeks and I think people are just so unused to ARs being viable and competitive that they have fits when they get genuinely out-gunned by one. I think they should be allowed to be on the same tier as handcannons to fit player preference and playstyle. The meta should be given time to mature, settle, and be allowed to grow beyond 120/140 handcannons or 340/540 pulses + shotgun or fusion.
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Im fine with autos becoming competitive. But the ttk values of what autos are now is starting to feel a lot like what smgs just were. I just don’t want a situation where autos do the same thing as smgs except with way more range. A prime example would be the ammit. That thing is insanely easy to use and I don’t even use autos like that. I want everything to be competitive but I don’t want autos to be just as busted as smg’s just were. Flinch is a big reason why I think any automatic weapon in this game is very strong because single fire weapons suffer the most from flinch. Whereas u really cant flinch an auto or an smg off their shot. U really cant duel with them straight up or u will lose 9/10 times. I just worry once people start catching on to the auto rifle buff the sandbox is gonna be a bad time again.
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Editado por Total-Luuzer: 9/10/2023 8:36:42 PMI think that's fair! You're not wrong. Autos currently have up to 25% built-in anti flinch based on Stability. If they nerf that down to 20% or 15%, and make their max range equal to Hancannons maximum, I think it might feel a bit better. That and/or nerf Ammit's Range by 10 points, because my own Ammit has 91 Range and basically 100 Stability even with Full Bore, its so silly lol
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I hate to tell you this, but lobby balancing was completely removed from trials. Trials matches teams completely random now, and it also does not look for similar skilled players. Unfortunately… unless your capable of being able to carry 2 blueberries in all of your matches, your chances of going flawless are slim. You’re completely at the mercy of rng every game you play.
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See I know they say its gone but I find it way too “convenient” that myself and all the other good players complain about the same thing where the 2 worst players in the lobby always get thrown with the 1 best player in the lobby. Its too common to just be a coincidence and I definitely think there’s something going on in the back end there to cause that to happen.
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You made some good points but let's not pretend that handcannon will forever and always be the MOST forgiving and easy to use of all primaries. So long as they have the traits of having the most aim assist (by FAR) with the least number of shots you have to land, while retaining good in air accuracy and a very easy 3 body 1 head kill with a 140. Regardless of if they're meta or outclassed or outranged or whatever, they will have the traits of being the easiest and most forgiving
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They are close to the most forgiving and easy to use when stuff like ammit and immortal exist
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I would disagree here because if you don’t hit those headshots you guarantee lose any dual to any other primary. Lets not forget flinch heavily affects single fire weapons more than automatic weapons as well.
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There's a huge disparity between well and bubble right now. In all aspects of the game, well is just straight up better. Before bubble gets hit at all, well had better get a massive hit 1st. By the way after the last bubble nerf. 1 aggressive shotgun shot and 2 melee's kill the titan now. Bubble is far, far, far from an instant win in trials. Not to mention just how many counters to bubble that there are. Muiltiple special weapon ammo types grenades, not to mention that you can nuke a bubble pretty quickly. Well is 10 times stonger than bubble, by far. Now that being said, that doesn't address the problem that there are only 2 zone control supers in the game. Given that disparity, trails shouldn't be dominion. Or should be adapted. Where there are multiple zones or something. The problem i have with nerfing bubble is that the sentinal super is god awful. Where as dawnblade is a top tier super. I agree that well and bubble (to alot lesser extent) are an issue in dominion trials. Just nerfing those supers isn't the solution.
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However I would say the sentinal super isn’t horrible. U will just never get it in a trials match.
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Terrible in consistency more so. The hit registration on that super is brutal. Same reason strand titan sucks in pvp. The melee lunge does everything in its power to not connect or to even go in the direction you intend
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Yeah all of the strand supers except for warlock are horrible. They need a buff at some point too. But i definitely dont think the sentinal is as bad as they are. Maybe not the best roaming super out there but certainly not the worst.
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Well the power of the super wasn’t my main problem. It was the constant uptime they have by cycling orbs and constantly having supers after round 3 or 4 for the rest of the game that I find obnoxious because other shutdown supers have longer cooldowns, require kills to spawn orbs, and spawn less orbs on kills. Whereas bubble and well spawn more orbs for less effort with a way faster base charge rate. Well is a bit stronger but in those aspects, share the same problem. Also lets not pretend like a semi decent player is gonna let u shotgun double mele him before he smokes u with weapons of light. Also every bubble titan combos with void barricade for extra overshield and protection. They are both most definitely free wins if u dont have a super to counter it if the team knows what they are doing.
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Good well argumented post, don’t agree about everything but well said.
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That’s an interesting fusion rifle change, that certainly makes it a precision weapon just like shottys have with reaction time, precision ,and short range domination, snipers with their reaction time and long range domination. By your balance change, fusion rifles would, turn into a stand and deliver weapon type which is a good thing because you can no longer bait pre charges. Once you hear that charge, you know a fusion user is full swinging with mid range domination. It would now have the same risk reward weighting as it’s special ammo cousins.