Because a lot of people who play are absolute dog shit. I’m always perplexed by the fact a 1.4 is top 5% in this game. People just need to start accepting the fact that their bad.

Fine....then remove every single bounty and quest that requires crucible to progress in overall light. It is very simple.

[quote]Fine....then remove every single bounty and quest that requires crucible to progress in overall light.[/quote] I thoughts the forums were filled with "top engaged players", that was a very casual thing to say...

I can't help it you have issues with comprehensive reading and don't understand the argument. (Well...I can...but you will need to pay me). Anways...strong advocacy for full and complete separation of the PvE and PvP "sandbox" where PvE players aren't forced into crucible to artificially boost player populations and to serve as farm material to keep the PvP players happy isn't a sign somebody isn't engaged. PvP has their stuff. PvE their own stuff. No cross over. Want to progress in PvP? You do that through PvP. Want to progress in PvE? You do that in PvE. Sfuff I earn in PvP can't be used to infuse into PvE stuff and vice versa. Gambit can disperse both loot pools or give you a choice in rewards. And exotic catalysts have an either/or option instead of forcing either side to do the other activity if they don't want to upgrade the damned thing. For all I care...PvE and PvP get their own separate exotics. That way PvP can be balanced like an actual PvP game without being impacted or impacting PvE...and everybody can play whatever they want.

To start, I just wanted to point this out: [quote]I can't help it you have issues with comprehensive reading[/quote] Two sentences later: [quote]Anways...strong advocacy for full and complete separation of the PvE and PvP "sandbox" where PvE players aren't forced into crucible to artificially boost player populations and to serve as farm material to keep the PvP players happy isn't a sign somebody isn't engaged.[/quote] You may want to consider reading your own comments before saying other's have a comprehension issue. The only way in which that statement makes any sense is if you make the subject of the sentence: [quote]strong advocacy for full and complete separation of the PvE and PvP "sandbox" where PvE players aren't forced into crucible to artificially boost player populations and to serve as farm material to keep the PvP players happy[/quote] Not something I would consider to be a coherent statement. Anyway, back to the substance of your comment. I am 100% a PVE player and hate PVP with a passion, but even I understand that the two cannot (and should not) be separated completely. Separate balancing of sandboxes should exist, but in a looter shooter game, you do not want to limit the loot people obtain to PVE or PVP, that's just insanity. Why should PVP players be limited to only PVP weapons instead of weapons they earn through playing the PVE campaign? Should PVP be a separate campaign altogether? Why not just a separate game altogether? Where I'll agree with you in principle is that extensive PVP requirements should not be mandatory for PVE content, but Destiny has generally done a good job in allowing PVE players to obtain all PVP loot relatively easily. For example, the Witherhoard Catalyst requires 100 GL kills in crucible, but this is dropped to 25 by getting rank 22 on the Season Pass. This is not overwhelming and a relatively easy quest step. The same is true in the other direction, in order to get Last Word, you end with a PVE quest, and a relatively easy one. The only people that want PVP requirements COMPLETELY removed from PVE content are [spoiler]casuals[/spoiler]

[quote] You may want to consider reading your *Bla* Not something I would consider to be a coherent statement. Anyway, back to the substance of your comment.[/quote] Don't be ridiculous. The sentence was completely coherent which you had no issues to understand...and you did a wonderful job here of proving that. This is not the same as starting out with a sentence that doesn't reflect what has been said. [QUOTE] I am 100% a PVE player and hate PVP with a passion, but even I understand that the two cannot (and should not) be separated completely. [/QUOTE] They absolutely can. Whether they [i]should[/i] is subject to discussion. [Quote] Separate balancing of sandboxes should exist, but in a looter shooter game, you do not want to limit the loot people obtain to PVE or PVP, that's just insanity.[/quote] Well no. It isn't and several games have done or are doing exactly this. Some games even have two different set of rules and bonuses that apply depending on which mode you participate in. So this isn't "insanity". It is just a different approach. And if you are following this meta discussion you can see that a recurring argument is that the PvP part of the game should be regulated and approached like a PvP game and specialized rather than an addition to the main game. So it stands to reason. If PvP players want "their part" of the game to be more PvP-y....then I want "my part" of the game to be more PvE-y. Fair is fair. [Quote] Why should PVP players be limited to only PVP weapons instead of weapons they earn through playing the PVE campaign?[/quote] Why not? There are tons of PvP games with PvE campaigns that don't cross over. Hell, the current top pvp games are games that start out on a level playing field gear wise at the start of the match. A ton of games start in a protective equalized pool and release players from there into the wider population btw. [Quote] Should PVP be a separate campaign altogether? Why not just a separate game altogether?[/quote] A. is exactly my argument... IF you want to force cbmm on players in a PvE centric game because PvP needs to be more like true PvP games...the game should provide an option to avoid that segment of the game all together. B. is a little too extreme imo...but sure. [QUOTE] Where I'll agree with you in principle is that extensive PVP requirements should not be mandatory for PVE content, but Destiny has generally done a good job in allowing PVE players to obtain all PVP loot relatively easily. [/QUOTE] This isn't about "ease". [Quote] For example, the Witherhoard Catalyst requires 100 GL kills in crucible, but this is dropped to 25 by getting rank 22 on the Season Pass. This is not overwhelming and a relatively easy quest step. The same is true in the other direction, in order to get Last Word, you end with a PVE quest, and a relatively easy one.[/quote] Now...the examples you give are exotics. Which I thought I exempted from it by saying "For all I care they get seperate exotics". Which indicates that I am working on the premise of that pool being shared. Though maybe I should have made that more clear. I don't care either way. [Quote] The only people that want PVP requirements COMPLETELY removed from PVE content are [spoiler]casuals[/spoiler][/quote] Only if you consider pure PvE and PvP players to be casuals to begin with.

[quote]Only if you consider pure PvE and PvP players to be casuals to begin with.[/quote] That's not my criteria for determining a casual player, although, it is much easier to spot a casual player if they only play PVE or PVP, easiest if they are a pure PVE player. If you: 1. Only play PVE. 2. Want all PVP requirements removed from your gameplay. 3. Don't continuously participate in endgame content. You are a casual. Any questions?

Ah I see....so you just make shit up as a definition as it suits your own agenda. Thanks for the clarification.

If you only play PVE and do not consistently play endgame activities, what are you playing? Strikes? Patrols? That's the definition of a casual. I added number 2 in there just for you since it is clear that you want to stay in your casual PVE bubble. You do you, have fun playing the game, but you are a casual.

Consistently playing end game activities doesn't define hardcore bubuu. 🤷‍♂️ That is your first mistake. Second mistake is thinking Destiny 2 is a hardcore game to begin with. It doesn't provide hardcore end game content nor a hardcore experience. The #1 consistently repeated and reoccurring complaint about D2 since it launched btw. Your third mistake is being unaware that the term "casual" originates from time commitment and low engagement/dedication. Its opposite isn't "hardcore" instead its opposite is "core". Hardcore refers to playing actual hardcore content or hardcore games....which D2 isn't and doesn't provide.

Number of times you used "hardcore" in your comment: 8 Number of times I used "hardcore" in any of my comments: 0 You are the one who implied I meant the opposite of casual is hardcore. Your definition of casual seems to be based solely on time commitment, which is something I disagree with fundamentally. Many casual players have hundreds (if not thousands) of hours played in the game, but they do activities that can be easily accomplished while playing casually. These types of players typically do not engage in endgame content because it cannot be done casually for most players.

Ow you didn't use the word. You just referred to it by type of content played. Now...you are free to disagree with it. But it is what it is. The game is out for three-ish years. Of course there are casuals with hundreds of hour in the game.

You don't need to be hardcore to be able to do endgame activities, you just need to not be a casual. As we have both agreed, they are not directly opposites. To bring it back because we are getting a little off track. This all started based off of my comment: [quote]The only people that want PVP requirements COMPLETELY removed from PVE content are casuals[/quote] Which I still completely stand by. I understand you do not like crucible content, but regardless of either of our opinions, crucible content will continue to be a minor part of the overall game experience for a PVE player that wants to experience the entire PVE game. I don't see that as a bad thing even though you seem to. The main difference between us two players that don't like PVP is that I suck it up and get it done because it is not hard.

Elo doesn't really show you very much that has to do with skill. Elo is only based on wins so when you have a system (SBMM) where the game puts a ton of effort into deciding the outcome of each match it really becomes meaningless. You could be really good and have low elo or really bad and get carried to having high elo. And the worst part about this is after the game determines your skill you just get the same experience served to you until until the end of eternity. We have now entered an era of reality-based PvP, and it is glorious.

Ahh. I thought ELO was an all-inclusive skill score. Thanks for clarifying.

[quote]According to DestinyTracker, I'm in the top 15% of PvP players, and since SBMM has been removed, it's been a real struggle to get even 15 kills. It's exhausting playing so intense...The skill gap between the top 20% and the top 5% is astronomical.[/quote] So now you get a little taste of what real “sweats” had to do daily. That’s every single game played during SBMM. But there is hope. Watch what counters they use against you. How they use the map against you. How they push you. How they bait you. All of that but reaction time can be learned. And make you a better player.

I see your point Freak. I get it. It must be exhausting to play against the sweatiest of the sweaty. I used to love playing PvP in D2. It's really the only reason I played. Now it just feels like a chore. I'm 43 years old. After over 800 matches in the past 4 months, I'm probably not going to get much better. Even if I could, I feel like the reward may not be worth it in the end to make such minimal gains on improvement. Here's the thing. If you are a top 5% player or better, then you've probably played the game way longer than Bungie ever intended you to. You are a god among men. Almost no one will achieve your level of understanding in the game. Gods should not be playing with mortals. They should be split from the group. It's the best solution for the majority of players. That's all I'm saying.