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6/19/2020 7:09:18 AM
27
Look with sbmm the worst players would still get a 1.0 because they were playing against the other worst players. I don’t mean to be rude but sbmm protected bad players from knowing they may not be great. Cbmm doesn’t protect you. You can still play modes with sbmm to practice and try to improve still.
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God dammit! It didn't [u]protect[/u] them. It just made it [u]fun[/u]!
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we can argue the protecting thing all day. But sbmm made it really unfun for a lot of people too.
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We shouldn't have an argument about it. It simply shouldn't be said that way. It's a very elitist viewpoint for another group of players that just want to (also) have fun. Think though, the people it was unfun for, while they may play the most, are a smaller group of people that did enjoy it. What's should be just as important to Bungie as their hardcore and elite players? The population that is also the largest. There's needs to be place that both types can have their fun in. And please don't say Comp or Elim. Those are not Playlists for casuals and average players.
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Well comp and elims do have sbmm so you will match similar players so they will be scaled to any skilled player and those modes are great for improving. Do you have any facts or reason on why you think we are a small percentage that like the change?
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I said don't mention those. Nice to know you're reading a whole post. Those Playlists are not for most casuals and lower tier players. C'mon man. I should need to explain why the average player comprises the largest population. It's been like that in gaming for decades. If you don't know that I can't help you. This isn't purely about numbers. It's about all players having a place to go to have fun. Not just high level players.
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If know the average is the largest group but you need to explain why you think only the best like CBMM that is false there a plenty of average and below players that like sbmm. I read you didn’t want those mentioned but I think it’s wrong to disregard those modes. Players besides the best do have fun with cbmm. In the current state of the game survival is a casual mode because it protects bad players from everybody else
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I just can't with this mindset. Nothing [u]protects[/u] anyone from anything. No ine wants protection. That just elitism talking. People just want a lace to have fun. Same as the high level players just different. Comp and Elimination are not the place lost casuals want to go because most don't care to compete at that level. Comp doesn't protect anyone because the nature of the mode is inherently sweaty anyway. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
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Ok so you don’t want protection from anything you just want to not have to match certain players that are much better than you. You also say comp and elims are not the place for most casuals because they don’t want to compete at that level but the level they have to compete at is their own skill level
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Yes. Because competing at their skill level to them [u]is casual[/u] that's why they prefer it. Something that high level player don't seem to want to do. However, the level of play required to do well (and have fun) in comp and Elimination is to high and fast paced for most casuals. The 3v3 and the inherent nature of the mode make it less casual friendly. I mean c'mon, they are both original Comp Playlist modes. Why would it change their appeal for casuals? Stop thinking about from a purely sbmm standpoint. They are not the preferred modes regardless of the MM type. Why is that so hard to understand? Also. The highest level players should never be matched with the lowest. Ever. Neither party gains anything from that match up.
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Competing in the highest skill bracket games isn’t fun either and makes doing bounties and things very difficult as well as making it hard for friends to play together as they can’t compete in my sbmm games. And I do gain things from that match up as a good player I get all my bounties done and I get a win and my valid goes up more. And I’ll agree that elims and survival may not be the favourite modes but I think that’s fine if you are a below average player either stick to the modes that are given to you until you improve or don’t play. I don’t mean to be an elitist but I think it’s fair that they have you two modes so you can still do your powerful gears
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[quote]Competing in the highest skill bracket games isn’t fun either and makes doing bounties and things very difficult[/quote] I get that. But this is exactly the same feeling casuals are comainjng about now with cbmm in every 'casual' mode. So why is itnok for hight level.llayees to complain about it and lower levels not? Why? [quote]And I’ll agree that elims and survival may not be the favourite modes but I think that’s fine if you are a below average player either stick to the modes that are given to you until you improve or don’t play. [/quote] That's a pretty poss poor attitude. So either play and suffer in modes that you are forced into OR stop playing a game [u]that you were enjoying last sesson[/u]. Read that back to yourself and tell me Is that the answer you want to stick with? [quote]I don’t mean to be an elitist but I think it’s fair that they have you two modes so you can still do your powerful gears[/quote] elitist thinking comes naturally to elitists. You don’t realize you’re being that way because it’s just how you are maybe. Instead try thinking about how other people feel and what their fun might be. it might just be different than yours and most likely is.
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CBMM doesn’t force you to feel like you are getting stomped your own performance does. And that is the answer I want to stick with. You are not forced to play crucible. At all actually so you are not forced to play any modes either. I have thought about how they feel and talked with lots of them but I can’t relate because when I suck at a game I get could or don’t complain because at the end of the day it’s my skill that is holding me back. That’s how I see it
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And that's fine and I'm glad we can have a conversation like this. However many people feel suddenly that pvp isn't fun anymore. I mean just look how the forums have lot up the past few days. Do people really think that they are complaining for nothing? They feel what was a fun part of the game has been ripped from them. Why can't people relate to that?
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I think that the current state is better and the two polls I’ve seen say CBMM is better actually. I know that isn’t every player but it says something. I get why people think it’s not fun because if you aren’t good it’s a rude awakening
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We've had a good enough debate for me to say "agree to disagree. The poll itself is going to be skewed. The reality is that very few people complained about pvp last season. Now there are a lot of complaints and the debate has flared up again. So Bungie needs to ask them selves 2 questions. - Why are so many people complaining [u]now[/u]? Are they going to realize they've hurt a significant portion of the player base. - Are we going to do anything about it. Stop swinging the pendulum so faw the other way and actually have a compromise.
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We have a compromise some modes are sbmm. And I don’t think it’s that no one was complaining it’s that the people now are just complaining louder
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Omg. Again... 2 modes that are inherently casual unfriendly. It's not enough. Yes they are louder because their fun was taken away.
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How loud you yell doesn’t make it right. And two why are those modes not casual I think you can actually improve faster in those modes
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And you'd be wrong. Those are comp style modes that require a higher level of play that most casuals don't want. Have a good night. We're talking in circles because you can't relate to what other like. (Admittedly). Good bye.
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It’s easy. Higher skilled players are were the ones (understandably) complaining about SBMM. They were the ones saying they had sweaty matches. By definition, higher skilled players represent a minority. Not a “small” minority, but since “higher skill” is relative it will always be a smaller population than those with moderate and low skill. So the majority was happy with CBMM because of the fun factor of the game. Those mid-tier players who “didn’t know they weren’t good” because they were “protected” is immaterial. Despite the notions that top flight players have, most players don’t care about “gitting gud.” Sure you want skills to increase, but having fun is goal number 1, 2, and 3 and if that means a false sense of “I’m good,” who cares?
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It’s wrong to think only the high skill players wanted it. Yesterday I met a guy on he forums who was “trash” at pvp his words so he was so bad that there weren’t players in his skill bracket so he had long queues and bad connection just like a top player he was on the flip side of the spectrum but same problems and he prefers cbmm. Also average players have no real reason to complain. If you are exactly average then there are 68% of average players that you will most likely match so close to your skill. And you have an equal chance to match someone better or worse than you. And as you go up to a top 40% his chance of matching worse players goes up. It’s wrong to just assume only top players want it when there is eveidence of the opposite. I don’t like the game protecting and skewing match making in a casual mode. There are still two modes with sbmm which is more than enough
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Except both of the modes left with SBMM were never designed for casual play. Neither is forgiving. Neither is “easy” to enjoy. Neither is relaxing. I’m actually a fan of survival, but it is not a place for casual enjoyment. You could turn it around and since both of those were designed to be more a test of skills, revert those to true CBMM and leave the casual place - the place Luke Smith explicitly stated was supposed to be the starting point for new players - to the match making type that caters to those it was designed for.
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You don’t get to have the cake and it it too. Good players should have a casual playlist where they can have fun. Why should you be punished for being good?
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When one person’s enjoyment requires others to “suffer” (realize the hyperbole of that word) it should be a non-starter. What you’re saying is that for high skill players to enjoy the game, they need to beat up on lesser skilled players. That’s honest, but it’s not good to keep the community going. What is happening to Trials will happen here. You will have a slow trickle of mid-lower skilled players leave crucible. Then the next level gets $h!t on and they leave. All you’ll be left with are the sweats beating up on each other again. It’s inevitable. Under SBMM, everybody has the same level of challenge because you’re always matching against same skill. You have to scratch for everything. High skill players complaining because they should be able to “take it easy” is something that nobody else has available to them. You’re asking for something that shouldn’t exist.
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Well both sides will cause one portion to suffer. It just comes down to who and making your good dedicated players suffer is no better than making that bad players suffer. They could flip 6s to have sbmm I guess and elims and survival to not but that would be worse IMO because then bad players couldn’t get pinnacles like hey can now.
