New Article from Luke's hometown of Polygon: https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/10/21286544/destiny-2-sunsetting-weapon-gun-retirement-sunsetting-interview-bungie-luke-smith
This article immediately makes the issue like it's only a problem in endgame with [quote] Players will still be able to use these older guns, but not in activities like raids, dungeons, Nightfalls, or Trials of Osiris.[/quote]
Is this a reach, you could say, but why is everything mentioned only endgame activities?
It doesn't take a mathematician to realize the non-endgame effects. You cannot do a Moon lost sector at 750. So old gear will likely be unstable on Europa's since we're having the same 200 power jump. Is patrol endgame? Cause this place and the next two, and probably whatever comes back from D1, will be unfriendly to anything old. For all we know, when old places come back, they'll also be raised. Dramatic assumption, but who knows at this point?
This line is written but never explained: [quote]Players needed Infusion, but it was always a temporary fix for a larger problem.[/quote]
What problem? Cause the problem in 2015 was:
[quote]Bungie wanted players to be able to use the gear they loved, rather than get stuck with something they didn’t enjoy using to stay at a higher power.[/quote]
And Infusion was hardly a bandaid, Etheric Light was.
Then it delves into Infusion's "problems"
[quote]But this fall, Destiny 2 will begin its fourth year of updates. Players have hundreds of guns to pick from now — more than Destiny 1 players ever had access to.
And that’s where Infusion’s problems start to manifest. “It’s pretty fun wanting new things,” said Smith, but Destiny players have used some of the same weapons — like the Leviathan raid’s Midnight Coup hand cannon — for three years.[/quote]
The idea stems from the typical concept of "If I already have something great, why would I need anything else?" I tend to believe people will always chase new things, there always seems to be something that has everyone's attention every season. Despite Dust Rock Blues already being an insane kinetic ranged shotgun, people went out of their way to cheat Trials out of godrolls for Astral Horizion. If I was of this "need" based logic that's kinda leading this change, I wouldn't ever "need" Astral if I had a great Dust Rock. Yet, we still had a mad chase for it take place. When it comes to a ranged shotgun, you don't need Quickdraw, you don't need max range, you don't need 110% Those are wants.
Why did anyone want Spare Rations when Midnight Coup existed? Couldn't be a need for it, they already had a near-identical gun.
My point is that necessity does not drive desire for gear. Things that aren't needed are still sought after. You can find your own reasons if you truly want to have them. Luke even says it's fun to [b]want [/b]new things. I was a loadout builder and liked having everything for the sake of possibility. Definitely tried to utilize everything I could, but time is not so kind to this playstyle. It's actually going to get worse. I'm going to post a memorial because I've always wanted to talk about how I [i]played[/i] Destiny. (Cause I can't anymore)
Now we have the conclusion that basically is coming full circle with D1
[quote]This new max power system will create an “ongoing curation of a deck of cards,” according to Smith. “This is our way of continuing to drive chasing pursuit in the world.” Smith explained that this is the alternative to moving to a new game or deleting player’s current arsenal. Players can still use the guns they love, but the new system incentivizes them to move on if they want to stay competitive. The max power cap is a permanent solution to the problem Infusion introduced five years ago.[/quote]
This "deck of cards" ideology is part of Luke's view of the game as Magic of the Gathering. That's been flamed enough already. Their way of driving chasing pursuit is the equivalent of a Hamster Wheel. A new game might as well be a better alternative, at least in D1's state, anything post-TTK is forever relevant anywhere in the game. Such an idea no longer applies to Destiny 2. And our official return to pre-TTK, where you could still use loved things like Fatebringer, but the system "incentivized" new things by capping their relevant effectiveness. Their permanent solution is reverting to before Infusion existed. The whole point of it, gone. The only difference being the timeframe, but why should that matter?
This idea has failed once already, it's why Etheric Light was made to bandaid the problem, it's why Infusion was made for a new generation of weaponry that was just not willing to be defined by elemental primaries.
You do not create [b][i]choice[/i] [/b]by restriction, that is literally counter-intuitive.
You do not create[b] [i]interest[/i][/b] by re-releasing a bunch of weapons before they're sunsettled, forcing re-grind for what you already have and could just be powering up instead.
You do not create [b][i]drive[/i][/b] by disrespecting time investment or sentimental value and giving people who already want new things and had no problems other than maybe the vault the middle finger.
You do not make people want to constantly check their "deck of cards" for viability. For some, you make them look at something they cared about, [i]decide it has become obsolete[/i], and throw it in the dumpster or the closet to never see the light of day again. For others, you make them throw their cards on the table and [i]walk away[/i].
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1 RespuestaEditado por Soular_Sage: 6/23/2020 5:17:15 PMI'm curating my deck in preparation for retirement. You won't be seeing me in Beyond Light, not with the DCV and weapon retirement. Btw, this is such a good piece.
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6 RespuestasEditado por Demon_XXVII: 6/12/2020 4:09:45 PMSeeing how this franchise has slowly been infected & destroyed - Y1 (how on earth did he keep his job?) & especially in Y3 with this disastrous seasonal/FOMO debacle A full on grindy madness, with pointless sunsetting, the armour 2.0 fiasco & the absolute haughty, conceited, hubristic, self-important attitude that Luke carries into every interview [quote]Luke Smith about why weapon sunsetting is the right move for Destiny 2. “We gave birth to [the Infusion] system and, you know, I think that it has a bunch of really positive properties, but I think it has a [b]bunch of really negative properties[/b] as well,” said Smith. Players needed Infusion, but it was always a temporary fix for a [b]larger problem[/b].[/quote] The larger problem buddy, is you...why not sunset yourself ? {after D2 nearly recovering in Y2 Forsaken - different lead (Jill Scharr) & many other talented devs leaving in the spring of 2019} It’s maybe time that Destiny was left to roll itself up in a scarab infested ball & scuttle down into the sewers
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I don't want a "curated deck of cards". I want a game that's fun and rewarding to play.
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47 RespuestasBasically Luke Smith doesn't know wtf he's doing. He's a HORRIBLE game director. Completely incompetent. Just because he did a couple of D1 raids doesn't mean he automatically knows how to direct a franchise. He keeps messing up and saying "I realize 'we' made a mistake, that's on me, but..." Man, please demote this guy back to raids and put one of the other real directors back. Please!
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FIRE LUKE SMITH
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6 RespuestasI dont think he realizes how incentive works. Incentive is giving a player a reason to do activities in a game, period ("a thing that motivates or encourages one to do something.") It's a simple definition and typically incentive would mean rewards, self-achievement or something else...but usually incentive doesn't mean taking something away to get it back in another form. Although technically, if I lost my car and I had to have a vehicle, there would be incentive to acquire a new one...but that's because I had to and not because I wanted to. Theres no option where I get a new car because it's more efficient or is more comfortable, the only option is is that I HAVE TO because I don't have a car anymore. So the only way they could think of generating incentive for players who don't care about anything but completion or power...was to take away their gear to require them to spend time getting new ones in order to stay relevant...rather than just giving them better gear to chase with the same goal in mind...? That's stupid. I fully understand the consequences of infinitely making weapons better has on the game. I know that the games limitations prevent it from going on forever...because eventually we will hit max stats and stupid or samey perk combinations...but the game going backwards or never forward is going to create just as much disinterest or hardships for the game later on as current infusion does when they purposely create worse gear. This games lack of lasting power is bullshit and adding a system that uses that as its foundation is just...terrible. Light is literally just a level gate, strikes are pointless, raids only get you gear that's on the same level as world drops, dungeons are the exact same things as raids, each planet is worthless, bounties reward you more than the actual activities themselves, champions weapon gate you etc. These people...are doing literally everything they can to make us achieve nothing, to feel nothing. But it's our fault that they can't drive excitement...yeah ok. And now they want to take away the only remaining factor in the game to care about completing those worthless activities for? Them taking away our gear doesn't make those activities or light level more interesting, it's literally just wiping the slate clean so you HAVE TO care otherwise you don't get access to the stuff you actually WANT to play. It's just another pointless gate to add on top of the other pointless gates. It doesn't feel like progression that way. This game just...bores me right now. The gameplay I still enjoy, but everything else just feels like a waste of time. Like why am I even bothering to play this season when I know full well that next season is when the actual stuff they claim they will be "good" will take place? Why am I farming gnawing hungers that should rightfully be power crept due to "sunsetting" right now if new gear this fall is supposedly going to be better? Unless that's not happening and it's all just a bunch of bullshit...like it always is. I don't want to think that old gear sticking around means that new gear won't be going very far out of their reach...but that's not the feeling I'm getting. I hope that this feeling I have is wrong...but considering this season didn't do anything to introduce us to a world of "more interesting weapons," even though the cap is now in place...I don't think I'm happily going to play ignorance this time. I've voiced my frustration with this system and so have a ton of people. I just hope if shit hits the fan that they recognize their mistakes and go back on it. If shit doesn't hit the fan and things really do improve because of it...I will be incredibly relieved. Just thinking about the games incentive getting worse is...frightening.
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13 RespuestasYou have summed this up perfectly. This needs to be pinned. Last night, I finally dug into the new season. EVERYTHING about the activities and the new engrams was fun, and interesting to me. So much so that I decided to spend some currency at a few vendors, as well as use the targeted engrams for some new loot and things I was missing. Can some one, ANYONE, explain to me how having gear drop that is identical to things sitting in my vault, except this "new" item has a higher power cap, is supposed to make me engaged? Zavala: Vanguard Helmet, Mos Epoc, Vertext - none better than my collection. Dredgen Engram(want the AR): 4 Bad Omens or whatever the RL is. Same two perks on each, none better than the fully masterworked one I have on another character. Prime Engram: Elantha, no better than what I have. Focused Engrams: 4 bows, 2 swords, and an AR. One bow with new perks. One bow that was almost a duplicate of that bow, with the same new perks. Two other bows, perks no better than what I have. My seasonal armor coming in with a 48 stat roll. looks cool. Why would I use it for anything? Mid way through the season I will get gear from IB or prime engrams that are better, higher stats, and won't have a high cost to bring up to 7 energy(my cap because fully masterworking armor is just pointless). Why would I care about or infuse anything other than the gear that comes more or less ready to go? So now, the best way to play is to simply use what you get. Don't hunt for anything. Expect that there is no excitement in regards to loot, since pursuing it is an endless cycle of the same shit different day. Loot pursuit has essentially ended. And the crazy thing? There is absolutely NO reason for this. You know what I used in Undying? Cool undying gear and some old stuff to fill gaps. Dawn? Cool Dawn gear and undying gear to fill gaps. Worthy? Cool worthy gear, and Dawn gear to fill gaps. You know what I liked to do before they announced sunsetting? Get to a point in the season where I was getting gear at my level, then use the excess of materials to bring up fun things or rolls that I had been meaning to try out. CONSTANTLY swapping my loadout. Not now. If I want to enjoy the game at all in terms of loot, I simply have to continuously replace gear with the SAME shit, longer timer. No collecting. No farming. Nothing. This is probably the worst design decision they have made, and it is overshadowing all that is exciting about the rest of the game for me.
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1 RespuestaFunnily enough, the two most played MTG types/formats (the game he used as an example iirc) include all cards (Commander and "Cards I Own").
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Its already such a pain in the ass to get my gears to high light time and resource wise I gave up. I literally don't care to have current shit anymore. Sunsetting things will make this worse.
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1 RespuestaI dont understand how people dont see this. And the big slap in the face that is giving us THE EXACT SAME GUNS WITH THE EXACT SAME ROLLS at a different power cap. This is completely disrespecting our time.
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5 RespuestasSunsetting will always be a mistake in a game that's about getting loot because now it makes getting that loot meaningless. No reason to grind for the best roll when you'll only get to keep it for 6 months after you acquire it. The worst thing about that article isn't the tone deaf way Luke Smith goes about it. It isn't the way he seems to think Destiny's loot system should be like Standard MTG (hilariously enough, this is why I don't play Standard -- I don't like my investment being forcibly removed for the sake of the new shiny, and even in MTG sets are in Standard for more than a single year). It isn't in how, when comparing it to a card game, you could buy cards directly to skip the "grind", which you can't do in Destiny. No the worst thing about that article is that it shows, once again, Bungie has "listened to feedback" and summarily discarded it because they believe they know better. Again. I had the season pass and skipped the last couple of seasons because spamming public events and leveling up a gear-creation system just for it to be stripped away completely next update is not how you should be running the game. I'm only playing this season because I already paid for it and it's at least slightly more enjoyable than everything else compared to last season. I was on the fence about getting any packs or expansions after this season is over because I waiting to see if Bungie was actually listening for once regarding Sunsetting. Seems they've made their decision. As a solo player, Bungie already hated me playing their game. Now they've just solidified their opinion that player time and effort has no value despite the majority of players utterly hating Sunsetting and telling them so. Once again, Bungie says they know better than you and you have to do things their way or no way at all. I'm going to take the "no way at all" option unless something drastic changes, and changes very soon.
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Editado por GRAVEL: 6/13/2020 4:14:57 PMSunsets were made to walk-off into. I'm folding my hand. Luke Smith's idea of destiny is nothing like my own. Since I can't equate these two differing views... I've stopped playing. I think destiny2 is shallow as ever. Bungie is lazier than any developer has a right to be and perhaps I'll stop in for the big drops. My hobby however has been ruined.
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1 RespuestaEditado por ZapZap: 6/13/2020 5:44:19 AMThis game sucks. I got to BPL 1049 in two days. 1050 doesn't even seem worth it. That's right. I can barely be bothered to do anything else. Hopefully some other drug hits the streets that I find more addictive than this crap. For now, Luke & Co. are just low-level pushers. The drug that is Destiny is so far from pure it's ridiculous. And not at all intoxicating. It's cut with the impurity of poor design and absent play-testing. Nice job on your broken Umbral Engrams, by the way. Didn't take long to crack that code. You know, while we're breaking things, how about you break Zero Hour again? Or Prometheus Lens? And did you know that your new grenade launcher is one-shotting Raid bosses? The lesson being: This game is only fun when it isn't working the way the developers hoped. The flip-side: We cut through content so fast that there's nothing left to do for three months minus one week. So what's left in that equation? Boring bounty grinding. I will make no appeal to the morality of any developer or director. I know such words will fall on deaf ears. Hell, I don't expect anyone in the community to really care what I'm saying. This is mostly cathartic. I would hope that developers would realize that they're using and abusing the fanbase very much like a drug dealer would. But there are checks to cash. These days, maybe I shouldn't blame someone for trying to make a buck. All I know is that I'm currently working from home and doing a great job, and if I was as bad at my job as Luke is at his, I would be fired in a heartbeat. They talk about Bungie being such a great place to work. With job security like that, I can see why.
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You know what I think? He listens to the youtubers who play destiny as a job (like datto for example) and that’s all he needs to reaffirm his bad ideas of going back to a year 1 destiny 1 loot system. Those youtubers claim “power creep” and all that “it’s too easy” bs, but that’s because they play 5-10 hours a day with other ppl just like them. The game lost its challenge to them, so they want more challenges to bring back the fun, but the fact is, the ‘fun factor” is perma gone for youtubers cause they just played too much. Every bungie summit counts on youtubers opinions, and the majority agree on bs sunsetting. This isn’t magic the gathering, this isn’t world of Warcraft. Stop treating it like so. This is a LOOTER SHOOTER. You destroy the looter aspect of it, what do we have left? Yea, I wanna shoot that dreg in the face for the millionth time! That’s what brings be back... not the loot! Come on bungo... put a power cap on Luke smith’s bad ideas and let us “become legend” and all that other bs you said we could be.
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2 RespuestasEditado por Corrick II: 6/12/2020 4:28:08 PMIt’s just disappointing that only the most regular players can take full advantage of the armor features. Unless you are constantly at max level, there’s no point in masterworking anything, and mods only last as long as a piece of armor can take them before it’s swapped out for something with different mod slots. And yes, there’s probably no need to go all in on armor upgrades if I’m not even playing that much, but then what’s the point of the game? Only use a fraction of the features just because I don’t live on my couch? This is supposed to be something we do for fun, not a job. Also, fun fact, just mentioning Etheric Light makes me sick to my stomach.
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A game that temporary in almost every single way, sad
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1 RespuestaI think Luke smith knows much more than you do, you could only dream to have his job.
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1 RespuestaYou are wrong when it comes to why players chase what they chase. I had a max range, slideshot snapshot DRB, but the moment astral came out I needed to get it. Because it's miles better. That of course is in the PvP perspective. Quickdraw on shotguns (even more so aggressives) is topping any other shotgun in game for pvp. And that is soley what i use if i have it. Trust me when I say, crucible can be fun and all, and I do play a lot of stuff. But when we sweat, we sweat. And i m slapping that snap rangefinder dire along with that snap quick beloved with hammerhead to top it. You obviously don t need it. My bro just top fragged a comp game using white armor, a white smg and a snapshot blue sniper pulled from collections. You can do it. But if there is an option to get a better gun, then why go for it?
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new question: how many more times can bungie make these kind of errors and survive? second, anyone know where they keep their lucky charm? if i could just touch that thing one time i would be set for life, it has so much luck to spare, saving bungie disaster after catastrophe after cataclysm.
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2 RespuestasShut up go home go to bed
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Made another[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/256317166] post [/url]on ending SBMM vs CBMM arguments with MM preferences if interested
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[quote]The idea stems from the typical concept of "If I already have something great, why would I need anything else?" I tend to believe people will always chase new things, there always seems to be something that has everyone's attention every season. Despite Dust Rock Blues already being an insane kinetic ranged shotgun, people went out of their way to cheat Trials out of godrolls for Astral Horizion. If I was of this "need" based logic that's kinda leading this change, I wouldn't ever "need" Astral if I had a great Dust Rock. Yet, we still had a mad chase for it take place. When it comes to a ranged shotgun, you don't need Quickdraw, you don't need max range, you don't need 110% Those are wants. Why did anyone want Spare Rations when Midnight Coup existed? Couldn't be a need for it, they already had a near-identical gun. My point is that necessity does not drive desire for gear. Things that aren't needed are still sought after. You can find your own reasons if you truly want to have them. Luke even says it's fun to want new things. I was a loadout builder and liked having everything for the sake of possibility. Definitely tried to utilize everything I could, but time is not so kind to this playstyle. It's actually going to get worse. I'm going to post a memorial because I've always wanted to talk about how I played Destiny. (Cause I can't anymore)[/quote] I've been wanting to say something like this but you beat me to it.(and wrote it better than I would have) It's disturbing that ANYONE could be conned into believing sunsetting is necessary for Destiny to improve. The idea is beyond absurd, but I see it being defended here routinely. Never thought I'd see gamers applauding limitations on their options but here we are. I'm gonna miss this game.
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8 RespuestasBro you’ve been crying on these forums for the past 6 months and yet you’re still playing.
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Honestly I don't really care about new amazing guns as much as new content, I would use the same 4/5 weapons for years if they kept coming out with new destinations/planets/missions/strikes/storyline
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I think 52 card pick up would be a more fun game then what destiny has become. Kind of tired of grinding light every 3 months for next to no content. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to grind at all or atleast a lot less... 50 levels every 3 months though is like throwing salt in a wound.