JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Hablemos de Destiny 2.
5/2/2020 3:54:56 PM
42

Sunsetting gear and why its bad.

Sunset gear

175

Don't sunset gear

521

With one of Luke Smiths SoTG posts he talked about how legendaries have a "forever" problem, and he tried to use powercreep as an excuse as to why they will be capping the power on older items. Here is why it is bad at least in my eyes, and possibly solutions that could reach a middle ground without disrespecting player time investment. Why its bad.... Firstly, if they intend on retiring all older gear this will heavily impact the overall replay-ability of content, for example if they took Midnight Coup and power capped it then Leviathan has now lost replay-ability because the gear is power capped and will penalise you for using it in newer activities. Why would I go for a particular weapon in a raid only to use it in patrols and strikes? Following the general things that happened with Worthy I also will be lower in power for the newer content just for using it, not even just for raids, Trials and Iron Banner. Secondly, if this will effect raid loot or any loot then you make the investment into getting a weapon redundant as you will farm for a particular weapon only for it be power capped after a year. Why would I spend time going after a particular gun just for it to be power capped after 12-15 months? This also ties into RNG, what if I wanted a god roll weapon and somehow got unlucky enough not to get one before that time is up? What if someone doesn't have enough time to put in to get enough drops of a particular loot drop to get that god roll? Again, it will waste the time investment of players for grinding for particular loot. What if someone joins later into a year and goes for an older gun just to realise they only got a couple of weeks left before it gets capped? Thirdly, for the argument that you can use it in older content still most of that older content is redundant and will be made even more redundant with their loot also being retired. So, the only main places the gear will matter after retirement is Strikes, Patrol, Crucible and Gambit. Forges, Menagerie and Reckoning will be made redundant to play as their loot is capped and I doubt many people will want to farm for a god roll spare rations or Austringer just to use it in 4 places in the game that are pretty unrewarding as they stand at the moment. Finally, the real kicker is when it comes near to the end of a weapons "lifespan" is that the activities associated with it will be a ghost town, as no-one will really be spending time on a weapon that is about to be power capped and the only people that might do that are those that really want the weapon for some reason. For those that try to use the "MMO" mechanic argument I'll explain why its a bad argument, for an MMO when new content is released along with new gear these new items are usually higher in their stats and damage output than older items. This naturally makes older gear less useful in newer content as they aren't as strong as the newer items, with Destiny the newer gear isn't stronger than the older gear its only that the older gear has been artificially capped so that newer gear is forced into usage. Now, for where there could be some ideas to reach a middle ground with weapon retirement. I personally don't mind very specific weapons being retired if they are very powerful or way too versatile, Recluse comes to mind as a weapons that is way too versatile of a weapon and a bit too strong that I think that it would be a reasonable venture to retire Recluse specifically. However, there is a counter argument I would like to make in the case of why Recluse shouldn't be retired... just to play devils advocate here. The main question that comes to mind is why is Recluse way too versatile? I think that the reason why Recluse is very strong in the majority of content is because after D1 it seems Bungie has decided to do away with encounter balancing... take a minute to look and realise in almost all content enemies will spawn within relatively close range allowing Recluse to really shine, then you can tack on that since we a quite tanky in Destiny 2 if the enemies spawn within a range a little out of Recluses effective range then you can easily close the distance without much of a sweat. For Destiny 1, raids in particular took advantage of using geometry and enemy placement and range along with raid mechanics to get you to switch up your loadout for specific encounters. Let's take a look at Kings Fall and primaries specifically for example. For Totems and Warpriest you would notice that most people would be using a hand cannon as their primary this is because in these encounters enemies are in a bit closer range to the player allowing for handcannons to be really useful within these encounters. Then with Golgoroth and the rest of the raid there is a fundamental shift in how the encounters are balanced, with Golgoroth specifically you will tend to see people use things like scout rifles as the enemies that spawn in Golgoroth will be at range and you will have to remain in some form of cover otherwise Golgoroth will quickly melt you with his beam. This changes how you engaged combat for just a singular encounter by implementing different elements that could make this effect work. Now off the Recluse tangent and back to how there could be a middle ground for weapon retirement. As I covered earlier I am personally fine with weapons that are way too versatile to be retired. But retiring weapons that are just viable but not exceptionally strong is stupid because when you try to retire that loot the argument of "power creep" it just doesn't make any sense or hold up. For weapons like Midnight Coup for example this weapon is viable but not exceptionally strong and it would be pointless to retire it because its a viable weapon not a way too versatile weapon. I think another way you can get around the issue of older loot is by making the newer gear give particular bonuses within the new activities, sort of like activity specific gear if you will. For example, lets do something D1 did with raid weapons where they had an intrinsic perk that would benefit within the raid and perhaps a little outside of it. For example the VoG weapons came with the Oracle Destroyer intrinsic perk that allowed the raid weapons to do more damage to oracles in the raid which could incentivise the use of that loot for that particular activity. Now, you would get around the issue of having to keep this loot around in your vault forever by the activity eventually getting lower in power level compared to players current level and this would phase out those weapons bonuses naturally and will make the current weapons be much better in that activity. But lets put this into a thing in Destiny 2 like Sundial for instance, lets say the difficulty of legend sundial is jacked up a bit and the boss becomes an actual threat with its special attacks. Would you grind for a sundial weapon that has the intrinsic perk or an actual extra rollable perk that would allow you to disrupt the Psion and prevent his powerful attacks? In this sense you can have new items that are very good to use in the new content because they directly benefit within that content, this could also be expanded upon with a Gambit Prime like set bonus and allow for different benefits for equipping multiple pieces of the activity gear. Then you can get into the actual weapons themselves, make the weapons have unique little effects or new perks that would make the weapon a nice little thing to mess around with for "funsies" and that is a way that you can get people to try out new weapons and they might particularly like that weapon and how it functions and they can still use it in the new content without any drawbacks to that actual weapon but they will possibly want to go for the new loot since it will directly benefit within the newer content. TL;DR There really isn't a TL;DR for all this info besides the simple line of... There is other solutions that don't disrespect player investment into weapons and still incentivise usage of newer gear.

Publicando en idioma:

 

Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

  • It’s necessary for more guns and such and for more unique ones as well

    Publicando en idioma:

     

    Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

  • It's bad for it makes them break a promise they made back in Destiny 1 to never disrespect the communities time .... Then again this community is used to Bungie lying tot hem daily.

    Publicando en idioma:

     

    Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

    1 Respuesta
    • Who cares, D2 needs to be sunset.

      Publicando en idioma:

       

      Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

    • I think weapon retirement is good. Getting new gear doesn't matter when you already have god rolls of every weapon type, and it does in fact come with balancing issues. How long did Recluse's reign of terror last for? Perhaps we could come to a middle ground, and do what House of Wolves did. All old gear is usable, but you need a special end-game material to bring it up to current light level. That way getting new gear is still interesting, and people can still use whatever weapons they want. That still doesn't fix balancing issues though.

      Publicando en idioma:

       

      Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

      1 Respuesta
      • And in an MMO, you do the activity, you get the weapon. In D2, you get crappy rolls. You can't design a game around sifting through crappy rolls, then cap the rolls you chase through heaps of RNG. And what about the legendary ornaments? Only answer is weapon transmog. Something MMOs also have. Bungie can't cherry pick parts of an MMO experience that only work because of the [b][u]other things[/u][/b] that make up an MMO experience.

        Publicando en idioma:

         

        Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

        1 Respuesta
        • My take, so obviously imo, I have grinded for the guns I like with the rolls I want (took like 25 blast furnaces before I got my roll) I'll grind for a new gun now and then but I'd rather not be forced too. I was looking forward to having my ideal loadouts complete and I am pretty much there for both pve and pvp. I dont want to grind out another gun 25 times to get a decent roll. I am against sunseting weapons because it takes our choice from the equation. If you want to continue to grind new guns, by all means, but I'd rather it not be forced. I personally won't invest the time, thats not me being dramatic, just realistic. I'll end by saying this has been, and still is a great game.

          Publicando en idioma:

           

          Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

          1 Respuesta
          • Weapon retirement is bungie being lazy. Instead of designing more varied encounters, or creating more interesting weapons, or creating more perks bungie is just gonna take away all your stuff and make you grind for it all over again. And even if you do think weapon retirement is a good idea we all know bungie never gets anything right when it launches. D2 vanilla, armor 2.0, trials, seasons. All of them were flawed at launch. Something is going to be wrong with weapon retirement. It's only a matter of how bad it will be when bungie launches it.

            Publicando en idioma:

             

            Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

          • Editado por Bumblebee793: 5/3/2020 3:03:21 PM
            If bungie's excuse is new weapons are getting too powerful, why should they care if we use old weapons? It should be up to the player wether they want to use old guns or new guns. If They were making new guns less powerful, then i could understand the argument. But if the player is fine being put at a disadvantage, then by all means let them! And I swear if they sunset my dawning sword I might stop playing altogether.

            Publicando en idioma:

             

            Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

            1 Respuesta
            • Hey bungie look at the data in this post. 70% of your playerbase thinks this is a dumb idea.

              Publicando en idioma:

               

              Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

              30 Respuestas
              • Honestly if they sunset weapons I’ll just be quitting destiny for good

                Publicando en idioma:

                 

                Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

              • I don’t mind the idea. A large number of guns we use are just reskined versions of guns we were using in the past. I think the real problem is forcing players to use guns and play activities they don’t want to. A player should be able to accomplish their task and have fun if they completely ignore all activities and weapons they just aren’t interested in doing. A smaller weapon pool will force players to use meta weapons more than ever. I don’t use meta weapons or strats often largely because this current meta is a no skill auto spam fest. If I was forced to use autos, I wouldn’t play. We need a larger weapon pool like we have now so players can ignore meta and still do good. Bungie wants weapon retirement so the meta is easier to control. Which may have more negative aspects then positive. There are far more negative angles to weapon retirement then people care to notice.

                Publicando en idioma:

                 

                Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

              • Personally, I think all guns should be capped except raid weapons and exotics, as they are the ones that typically require the most effort, and only a small minority of players ever actually obtain them (raid weapons).

                Publicando en idioma:

                 

                Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                6 Respuestas
                • Just going by the game's track record here... Sunsetting is not surprising. It will happen. It will be divisive. Probably reverted in some form at some point. Ultimately it will solve nothing, it will simply be a temporary band-aid approach at getting this game through a few more paid pieces of content. Still going by track record... It will not bring us new and exciting weapons. We will regrind for reskins, or guns just strong enough to nose their way into a "meta". We will be limited by this in all avenues of the game. This will make people leave. This will hurt the game in the long run. So... Anyone arguing for sunsetting seems to fall into one of a few categories. 1. People who either didn't play Destiny 1, or who play many other MMO's. They don't see this as a problem because they haven't been through the Destiny version of the system. 2. People who either cannot earn the "OP" gear, or people who earned it right away and are tired of using it. These people genuinely don't mind seeing gear thrown in the trash, and cannot be swayed. 3. True Bungie Bootie Kissers, who are so enamored with anything Luke "Scarab Lord, Lead of VoG, Bringer of TTK" Smith says, they will ignore any and all negatives. Obviously I'm sure there's other types that believe sunsetting is good... But the majority I've dealt with can fit into these fairly comfortably. Sad to see the game go through this again.

                  Publicando en idioma:

                   

                  Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                • The only way I can see this being successful is if content like the Black Armory, Raids and Menagerie etc. have new weapons in the loot pool that replace the old ones.

                  Publicando en idioma:

                   

                  Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                  1 Respuesta
                  • What Bungie needs to do is discontinue servicing this game as soon as possible and move on to another project. D2 has been running in place for a very long time, everything is becoming more and more boring, and the community is growing nastier every day. (No, I wont look at nor respond to replies. People here are awful too often. I say my mind and move on) Just nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

                    Publicando en idioma:

                     

                    Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                    1 Respuesta
                    • Guys and Girls. Fresh guns keep the game fresh. I don't want to use a bygones for 3 years. Or a better devil's for 3 years. If Bungie can put out a good amount of guns that are appealing then I'm totally in favor of them shelving weapons. They need too. It creates excitement for weapons again. I get where y'all are coming from with the time invested to earn weapons but sadly that's bungies mistake on how hard it is to earn those weapons. For example, if you wanted a God roll parcel of stardust you would have to play countless hours of Gambit, you might not even get one to drop all day and then if you do it might be a bad roll. It's bungies mistake on not making the grind worth your time. That's the reason why people are upset because of mistakes made by Bungie. But is it the right move to not want weapon shelving just because Bungie made a mistake? Just seems counter productive. If Bungie can shelf weapons and deliver a wide variety of new weapons AND make our efforts worth while (like the menagerie) then it's going to be a great game.

                      Publicando en idioma:

                       

                      Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                      25 Respuestas
                      • I think they are gonna sunset the pinnacle weapons. Hopefully, they don’t sunset the ritual weapons too, those were at least balanced. Also, I hope they don’t sunset the Gambit/Gambit Prime weapons, Black Armory Frames, Dreaming City weapons, and Menagerie weapons. Those were all unique weapons with different designs and feel. Like Austringer was pretty much Eyasluna from D1! That’s nostalgia for most people. The Gambit weapons made it worth it to play and grind gambit, they felt so crispy. The Black Armory weapons were cool, had nice rolls, and not a lot of people use them (They said they were gonna sunset breakneck because people weren’t using other weapons). Menagerie weapons allowed you to get a weapon that could be earned elsewhere, but you could choose the masterwork, and it was easier to grind for.

                        Publicando en idioma:

                         

                        Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                        3 Respuestas
                        • Editado por Riven’s No.1 Cookie Baker: 5/3/2020 6:43:11 PM
                          Not reading that wall of text. “Sunsetting” is the only way to stop power creep and keep players playing. People may hate it, but it’s logical. Apparently people think power creep isn’t a thing. Ha! Get over it. It’s real.

                          Publicando en idioma:

                           

                          Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                          38 Respuestas
                          • Editado por TwigTwig: 5/3/2020 9:05:08 PM
                            Remove the awful 'chase the dragon' light level system. Pure RNG grindfest designed to keep people slogging through boring activities on a weekly basis to inflate their playerbase. If they cared at all, they'd have made pinnacle gear drops a weekly cap from any activity. E.G: 5 pinnacle, 10 powerful per week. Every 5 games of crucible/gambit/whatever the -blam!- you prefer would drop one.

                            Publicando en idioma:

                             

                            Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                            1 Respuesta
                            • Editado por Pr0t0Zer0: 5/4/2020 1:04:40 PM
                              Like someone has previously said: Theyll either make the weapons weak and slowly scale us back up to where we are now Theyll make the weapons weak and leave them that way Theyll make new versions which are just as strong Or theyll make the new weapons even stronger All of which defeats the intended purpose of the weapon whipe which is to supposedly stop "power creep". And/or itll mane gunplay worse. Its just a bad idea all around. I also find it funny this is the second poll where the overwhelming majority vote against weapon retirement. Ever since that twab ive been way less invested in the game, only visting it once every couple of weeks. What used to bring me back is my inventory, the attatchment to the gear i worked for and earned through blood sweat and grind. Now i cant be bothered to play the game much cause the gameplay has become stale and my inventory is just a reminder of my wasted time being depreciated in value as we come closer to weapon retirement date. I refuse to buy shadowkeep, that way when forsaken gear gets retired I can unistall the game for good.

                              Publicando en idioma:

                               

                              Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                            • sunset gear but add it to the loot pool for you to keep getting later on....... hmmm

                              Publicando en idioma:

                               

                              Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                            • Personally I like sunsetting it not only gives me something to do, but it also makes the meta change Its a good thing to have imo

                              Publicando en idioma:

                               

                              Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                              10 Respuestas
                              • I want to keep my austringer but I’ll gladly sacrifice it if it means no more revoker or recluse so sick of seeing those guns.

                                Publicando en idioma:

                                 

                                Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                                1 Respuesta
                                • I don't understand the need to retire weapons because me and many other players use new weapons Bungie makes for us. When the Trophy Hunter came out. I farmed the heck out of that thing to get a triple tap vorpal roll. This weapon is used now instead of my Izanagi's which even has the catalyst, and it doesn't even take an exotic slot. Or the Stealfeather Repeater I love using this thing. I like using the Seventh Seraph machine gun for clearing ads and pairing it with warmind cell mods. We like the new weapons you make for us Bungie, so don't sunset these ones or our older ones. The other thing is Bungie doesn't want to make a Destiny 3 because Destiny is a game where a lot of hours and work have put in to get gear. Retiring weapons does the same thing as making a new game. It makes old gear obsolete.

                                  Publicando en idioma:

                                   

                                  Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                                • The only reason I see them having any ‘excuse’ for sun setting weapons, is that they are too tired of making new weapons and new perks. They don’t even need to make new perks. Just rework some of the current perks(what happened to air assault?!) and there will be plenty of new perk combos to play with. I truly don’t see any valid argument for it being okay for our weapons to become dated, and power creep is a pathetic excuse.

                                  Publicando en idioma:

                                   

                                  Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                                • It's fine, man up.

                                  Publicando en idioma:

                                   

                                  Pórtate bien. Echa un vistazo a nuestro Código de conducta antes de publicar tu mensaje. Cancelar Editar Crear escuadra Publicar

                                  98 Respuestas
                                  No se te permite acceder a este contenido.
                                  ;
                                  preload icon
                                  preload icon
                                  preload icon