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4/12/2020 1:27:43 AM
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Felwinter was killed during the assault on the Plaguelands and was reanimated by SIVA as an abomination, which we subsequently killed.
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There is a lore card which suggests that, that Felwinter was a fake
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Editado por Shockwave 989: 4/12/2020 2:35:30 AMI would actually find that lore card and cite that particular part of it before making such an outrageous claim. Especially when upcoming dialogue datamined confirms that it was indeed Felwinter who killed by the second and final witness to that slaughter.
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It's the exotic gauntlets winter's guile. "Felwinter" wakes up in deep stone script but cant remember his name and "his ghost" tells him believe her and that they have to leave because some one is after them and coming for them and that he need to tell them his name is Felwinter. In the new bungie web lore entries they also talk about something chasing Felwinter. Naturally if something is chasing you, a good way to avoid them is a body double to take your place while the real one goes into hiding.
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So you’re saying that it’s an assumption and not actively stated anywhere? Read the lore of one of the exotic ships in Eververse this season. Felwinter’s Ghost Felspring finds a ship that could get the two of them away from Rasputin, which implies that he’s what Felwinter is running from. Felwinter actively leaves the ship because he has decided to stay with the Iron Lords because he now believes in their cause. The problem is that Felwinter did not expect Rasputin to react the way he did when he told him the Iron Lords were there for SIVA. At this point Rasputin’s paranoia about the Traveler had extended to Guardians and he had no intention of allowing these walking corpse puppets to access this highly dangerous technology.
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I have read that lore piece, but again he very well could have made a double. He was an exo after all so it wouldn't be impossible to assume that flew to deep stone crypt on Enceladus found a blank exo (one with no conscious installed) imprinted some of his consciousness and had his ghost tell the copy what to do. We never found out in rise of iron what happened between Rasputin and Felwinter. For that matter we never found out what Felwinters lie was. Also the fact that Felwinter was the only, if not one of the very few, to have a ship during the dark age as well as know deep stone crypts location and he seems to know more about Rasputin and his tech than he told the iron lords.
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Editado por Shockwave 989: 4/12/2020 3:32:36 AMYour assumption however has no evidence to back it up. Especially when this fake Felwinter wouldn’t have been a Guardian and therefore would immediately have been found out. Not to mention the death of his Ghost would only harm the real Felwinter. Felwinter is dead. That is the truth of the situation unless we receive actual evidence to the contrary. I would also point out that we don’t know if Felwinter was awakened in the Deep Stone Crypt itself or if he actually knows where it is.
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You seem to know some lore, so by now should be aware of the fact that destiny lore is filled with inferences and assumptions. Post taken king there was lore suggesting both mara and uldren survived but it wasn't till forsaken that that was proven. In warmind the lore leads us to believe that Elsa brey survived the collapse and is the mysterious stranger. Even the location of deep stone crypt is an assumption the sever lore peice suggest but never out right say. There are cases were ghosts sacrifice themselves to save their guardian. I believe it was Tolands ghost or Eris' ghost did. There was also the child guardian whose newly acquired ghost sacrificed its self to save the child and the people traveling with him.
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Problem is this. We actually got hints that Uldren had survived in the Reef led portion of the Taken War. Mara came in later when we had confirmation of Uldren’s survival and he referenced Mara’s presence. Warmind the Elsie Bray trail that led towards us thinking she’s the Exo Stranger isn’t an assumption on our part, it’s openly Toland’s Ghost was as mad as he is. Eris’s Ghost was taken by the Hive. The Ghost Stories Child’s Ghost sacrificed itself to not just save the Baby but all of the Humans attempting to flee to safety. The problem with your assumption is that it has nothing implying it to be the case. No where is it implied that he somehow made a body-double. The Iron Lords believed it was Felwinter, Saladin believed it was Felwinter, Rasputin believed it was Felwinter and the game directly tells us it was Felwinter when it thusly names the first SIVA abomination Felwinter. You need something to support your argument. The ‘Obsidian Wings’ lore tab I sighted earlier states that Felwinter threw away his fear of Rasputin in favour of sticking with the Iron Lords. Nothing implies that he ran off and left a body-double in his place, that’s purely wishful thinking on your part.
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The mara and uldren assumptions weren't proven till a year after ttk and the Elsa is the mysterious stranger is not a definit only an assumption since it doesn't out right say it. These were just a few examples, like I said destiny lore is filled with them. My point still stands with ghost sacrificing themselves to save their guardian. So it is possible Felwinters ghost could have led the body double to their death as part of a larger plan to save the real Felwinter. Like I said we dont really know what happened between Felwinter and Rasputin and why siva attacked the iron lords. If we look at the facts we know that Felwinter was an iron lord. He was hiding a secret from the others and being chased by something. He had some sort of connection to Rasputin (in one of the web lore posts he almost killed Timmer who jokingly suggested a connection between them) Felwinter is one of the few or only guardians to have a ship in the dark age. He knew where deep stone crypt was. Deep stone crypt is were exos were made so, ergo they must have had blank exos laying around and the tech to copy and transfer consciousness.
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Here are the actual facts for you. Felwinter was an Iron Lord. He was running from Rasputin. He did almost kill Timur, but it’s important to note that encounter isn’t knew. Only Felwinter’s perspective is. Felwinter had a ship, which he declined to use and instead remained with the Iron Lords. He knew of the Deep Stone Crypt, as it seems all Exo’s do. There’s nothing even suggesting that the Crypt can copy consciousness You have yet to actually cite anything pointing to a body double being made. You’ve simply reiterated the mystery behind Felwinter and his true identity. Here’s something that’s actually implied for you that would explain the Rasputin connection Felwinter has. Felwinter was on of the Seven Seraphs. He has knowledge of them that he also keeps hidden from Timur in that weblore you keep talking about. As for what exactly transpired between them we don’t know yet, but Rasputin lashed out in no small part due to his paranoia about the Light. His early history with Guardians highlights his mistrust of them, considering he planned to attempt to shoot down the Traveler. Felwinter brought his wrath down upon them by signalling their intention to the Warmind. And finally, again, there were actual hints to those reveals in advance. Again, Taken King showed us that Uldren could have survived and then in Age of Triumph I believe we got confirmation of that as well as a hint that Mara could still be alive. Elsie Bray seemed to have gone missing in something related to the Vex tech she was experimenting with and the wording in one of her messages leads us to that she is now the Exo Stranger. Please cite me one piece of lore that actually hints at the fact that Felwinter used a body double. I would love to see SOMETHING backing up your wild speculation.
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Ok I'll go slow so you can follow me. Exos are made from humans. Exos are made in deep stone crypt. The process involves copying a humans conscious mind and transferring into a robotic body call an exo. Ergo deep stone crypt could make a copy of an exos consciousness and place it into another exo making an exact copy of the 1st exo. Winters Guile says that Felwinter woke up after having his memory rest. Deep stone crypt is the only place that can rest an exos mind. Deep stone crypt is believed to be on Enceladus. To get to Enceladus Felwinter would need a ship. Obsidian wings is a ship. Ergo- Felwinter used the ship to go to Enceladus to rest his mind as stated on the exotic warlock gauntlets. So it's not impossible to say that Felwinter could have made a copy of himself to send back to the iron lords while the real Felwinter stayed hidden. By Rasputin killing the fake Felwinter, this would allow the real Felwinter to live in peace without having to constantly watch his back.
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Editado por Shockwave 989: 4/12/2020 12:55:15 PMNothing indicates Felwinter knows where the Deep Stone Crypt is. To my recollection it’s not where Exo’s are made but it is the facility where Clovis Bray reset their minds. Nothing indicates an Exo’s consciousness can be duplicated. Felwinter woke up after he was resurrected by his Ghost, hence the fact he can’t remember his name. The Obsidian Wings lore tab directly states Felwinter didn’t use the ship and instead remained with the Iron Lords. You have yet to actually prove anything. You’re repeating information that has nothing to do with the main issue of your assertion and then magicking it up out of thin air. That’s like me saying the Vex travel through time. The Vex have been here for millions of years. The Vex are a powerful robotic hive mind. Clovis Bray fought the Vex during the Golden Age. Therefore Rasputin is actually based on the Vex through Clovis Bray’s analysis on the Vex. See? The last point has no actual evidence I’ve just slapped it on out of nowhere.
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In the Cayde 6 journal from the Forsaken collectors edition and in the face of spades mission he describes Enceladus and deep stone crypt as well as the process of how he was turned from a human to an exo. He also provided the evidence that deep stone crypt was on Enceladus. Now your making assumptions without evidence as to the winter guile lore tab. It doesn't say that he was resurrected or he had his mind rest. However when he starts trying to figure out why he cant remember his name he gets technical and starts mentioning technical terms. We do not know what happens or how a guardian is resurrected. So it's more likely he had his mind rest. Even top lorians like byf and myline agree this lore tab refers to Felwinter doing a mind rest at deep stone crypt.
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You yourself stated earlier that Felwinter was talking with his Ghost. That’s why its not like a normal reset. He hasn’t BEEN reset, he’s been resurrected by his Ghost. We know exactly how a Guardian is resurrected. We witness it in D1 for crying out loud! Guardians lose all memory of their past, but its clear that they don’t lose everything as then they’d be no better than a baby mentally. Exo’s historically also are the least affected by the resurrection process, as glimpses of their past remain. I also love how you keep bringing up that Cayde seems to know where the Deep Stone Crypt is, which has nothing to do with Felwinter’s knowledge of it. I’m not contesting that it’s Enceladus. I’m contesting your batshit crazy assertion that Felwinter created a body double and successfully passed it off as himself with the Iron Lords. We have absolutely no evidence that an Exo consciousness can be duplicated. Just a thought.
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Cayde 6 give us the the most information on the exo conversion process as well as were it's done. Felwinter is an exo, in case you didnt know. Exo (or atleast Clovis exos) do have to return to deep stone crypt to do a rest every so often. The long slow whisper compels them. In the ace of spade mission Cayde give us a cryptic message that's says it's on Enceladus. Yes we see cuts scenes of resurrection by the process is not well know or described in lore. You keep telling me to provide evidence but you do not provide evidence for your claims. The scene described in the winters guile lore tab cant be his 1st resurrection as he says "why cant I remember my name, I always remember my name." This means that whatever happened it isnt his 1st time. When an exos memory is reset, it is a know fact that they lose some memory, look at banshee. I highly suggest reading lore and doing some research since your not as well versed as you believe.
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He’s saying he can’t remember his name because he thinks that his reset in the Deep Stone Crypt went wrong. This is why he states that he always remembers his name. Which is why Exos only add another +1 to their number after a reset. A drone he doesn’t recognise is talking to him. His Ghost. If this wasn’t his initial resurrection, he would know who it was. The Ghost tells him that the Deep Stone Crypt was before her time, as in Pre-Collapse and says that it’s “kill or die out there”, referencing the Dark Age. It’s also clear he didn’t go to the Deep Stone Crypt as a Guardian, as the Ghost states that they “don’t know anything about the Deep Stone Crypt.” If Felwinter had gone their as a Guardian, his Ghost would’ve had some knowledge of it. This is before the City Age and before many Exo’s started to meet and discuss the Deep Stone Crypt. But do go on arguing that this was a Crypt reset.
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If he couldn't remember his name then it is very possible that he wouldn't remember the drone that claimed to his ghost. Or like I theorized, the Felwinter in this lore tab is a copy and the actual Felwinter intentionally left out pieces of his memory so that the copy wouldn't know he is a copy. If Felwinter was resurrected in deep stone crypt, like you just suggested, then how would he get to earth? If he did find a ship then were did it go in the time frame between then and the obsidian wings lore. Remember we still dont know what Felwinters lie is. It could very well be that the lie is his copy returned to the iron lords. It could also be that these lore pieces were written by different writers at bungie and they unintentionally screwed up the lore. This wouldn't be the 1st time this has happened.
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Ah you’re defending the point because you believe it fits into the absurd body-double theory. Here’s the thing though. You would think if you wanted a body double you would leave the important parts of your memory intact so it could pass off as you, hmm? He’s also clearly not in the Deep Stone Crypt as the Ghost has no knowledge of it and whoever is looking for him is not Rasputin. If it was the Warmind would be able to recognise him. Clearly the Ghost has found Felwinter just as a group of scavengers found whatever facility he’s in. If he knew his real name I guarantee you it was a dead giveaway of his Warmind connection. This Felwinter has no memory of anything really except the Exo basics or his Light, which again points to this being his resurrection. Nothing in these entries point to this being a body-double. That’s you attempting to string them together and SAY that’s what they’re doing. It’s not clear anywhere in the Felwinter lore that this was his intention or the reality of the situation. If, to go along with your absurd theory, this was a body-double, then that would not mean this was Felwinter’s body double. Felwinter never existed to begin with. Some Exo ran off and then this copy went on to become a Warlord, which completely robs the story of any weight.
