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3/2/2020 4:44:39 AM
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Hunters are statistically the most used, most effective (KD-wise), and most efficient (Winning-wise) class in Competitive = a mode in which people abuse the cheesiest loadouts in order to win.
https://guardian.gg/2/class-stats?platform=console&mode=37&start=2018-10-01&end=2020-03-01
Those stats correspond to a 1-year + period starting off at the time Special Weapons became relevant (Forsaken) and all the way until today... in a mode where winning matters the most (Competitive).
Just by looking at the relative density (concentration) of the points at the top of the graphs, it's clear that Hunters are the Crutch Class.
The Red Points (Arcstrider) and Orange Points (Nightstalker) are consistently at the top of each graph, and there was even a brief period (few months after Forsaken) in which all 3 Hunter Subclasses were at the top (Light Blue Points correspond to Gunslingers). That was most likely due to the Nova Warp nerf that resulted in the sharp decline to Voidwalkers (Purple Points).
Regardless of Stormcaller (Green Points) generally being neck to neck with Nightstalkers, the fact is that at least 2 Hunter Subclasses have remained in the Top 3 best Classes (in terms of KDA and Win Rate), while only 1 Warlock Sublcass has done so in the same time period (either Voidwalker - pre warp nerf or Stormcaller - post warp nerf).... and the same can be said for Titans.
Hunters have always been statistically the easy-mode character of D2, and if Bungie is willing to adjust multiple other things based on stats, Hunters need some adjustments too.
English
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[quote]Hunters are statistically the most used, most effective (KD-wise), and most efficient (Winning-wise) class in Competitive = a mode in which people abuse the cheesiest loadouts in order to win. https://guardian.gg/2/class-stats?platform=console&mode=37&start=2018-10-01&end=2020-03-01 Those stats correspond to a 1-year + period starting off at the time Special Weapons became relevant (Forsaken) and all the way until today... in a mode where winning matters the most (Competitive). Just by looking at the relative density (concentration) of the points at the top of the graphs, it's clear that Hunters are the Crutch Class. The Red Points (Arcstrider) and Orange Points (Nightstalker) are consistently at the top of each graph, and there was even a brief period (few months after Forsaken) in which all 3 Hunter Subclasses were at the top (Light Blue Points correspond to Gunslingers). That was most likely due to the Nova Warp nerf that resulted in the sharp decline to Voidwalkers (Purple Points). Regardless of Stormcaller (Green Points) generally being neck to neck with Nightstalkers, the fact is that at least 2 Hunter Subclasses have remained in the Top 3 best Classes (in terms of KDA and Win Rate), while only 1 Warlock Sublcass has done so in the same time period (either Voidwalker - pre warp nerf or Stormcaller - post warp nerf).... and the same can be said for Titans. Hunters have always been statistically the easy-mode character of D2, and if Bungie is willing to adjust multiple other things based on stats, Hunters need some adjustments too.[/quote] They need to rework their jumps. That is the main issue and the big outlier here. Their class jump either needs to be changed to something that's floaty just like the other two classes, or just outright significantly nuclear Nerf their jump distance. Maybe even removed triple jump for something else. As I don't think the final two sentences I said there are viable I think the most sensible thing is that they get jumps similar to warlocks and Titans.. People Cry 4 balance but they want to have one class that has completely different jumps and everything else and then still want balance how much sense does that make? #nerfhunterjumps
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Would pay money to see Bungie respond to this. Good call.
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This is reality but the butthurt won't accept the truth. The mass majority don't gravitate towards the most difficult class to play in any game that's ever been out. There's a reason everyone and their mother runs a hunter in pvp, because they are the easiest class to play.
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The day you can prove to me that 100% of all hunters have the unbroken title is the day that I will accept your blanket statement.
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[quote]The day you can prove to me that 100% of all hunters have the unbroken title is the day that I will accept your blanket statement.[/quote] I can give you a close second I have a friend that's made warlock since day 1 of Destiny 1. He's recently become interested in learning the Pinnacle weapons and getting Legend in Crucible and going for The Unbroken title. Take one wild guess which class he started using and he's more successful on? Hunter. And no disrespect to my good friend, he is not a great player, and it literally from switching to Warlock to Hunter made him a viable Legend in Destiny. Its a crutch class peroid. The stats prove it.
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Then why am I not unbroken? I’m a hunter main, therefore that means I use a crutch and should be a crucible pro all the time?
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[quote]Then why am I not unbroken? I’m a hunter main, therefore that means I use a crutch and should be a crucible pro all the time?[/quote] Teammates
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Now that didn’t make sense. Sure, I may have 1.52 KD+A, but my raw KD is just barely over 1.0. That’s purely because of the fact that I struggle in 1v1 situations, not because teammates or anything.
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Editado por Peter, Kell of Cottontail: 3/2/2020 2:32:26 PMIn order to put weight in this... You would need the average skill level of said players.. What skill bracket do they play in Stats to said players... It’s a video game with a free to enter admission... So, as we ALL know.. the hunter is the easiest class to get a feel for the game with.. Titans and warlocks take higher skill sets to not only master, but just to use in general. Myths.. hunters are fast.. they are, in fact, the slowest class in the game. If you main either a warlock or titan and you are slow.. your problem not only starts on how you play, but then the synergy build of your class: “Hunters in the air nerf stomps”... if you are dying by a class that can not float in the air with a game that does not reward in air accuracy to 98% of weapons... the issue is in you and the game you are playing. Warlocks are the only class that get a in air accuracy perk. Speaking of warlocks... high iq. That’s it. If you are not utilizing a warlock and all the potential synergy builds... you are an 8th grader trying to do college courses.... OR on the wrong class per your preferred play style. Titans can literally fly around like an attack helicopter, move faster than a hunter, and has a multitude of perks that allows them to get in people faces... there is nothing more painful to the pride of a player than a skilled titan in a pvp match. They own it to a degree that angers any gamer that is not a titan. In short.. even with anything cheesy, 90% of the problem is the brain that is playing the class. I absolutely suck at competitive pvp... and the only issue is me. Not hunters, not warlocks, not skilled titans, and not the seasonal meta... my mindset and my bad decision making ruins my pvp playing and that is in the competitive playlist.
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[quote]In order to put weight in this... You would need the average skill level of said players.. What skill bracket do they play in Stats to said players... [/quote] Not really, the Stats basically show that if any given player uses a Hunter, their probability of winning and getting a higher KD is higher than with other classes.
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No, it doesn't. You apparently have no idea how to use statistics and make conclusions.
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Editado por Eucadia: 3/2/2020 3:51:13 PM[quote]Or you know...some of the best players play hunter so kd and win stats will be higher[/quote] The fact you agreed with this^ proves you're the one who's clueless. > Each point on the graphs is a daily average of all the hundreds of thousands of people (top players included) who played PvP that day. > The Number of "Noobs" is way higher than the number of "Top players", so the %contribution of players for each stat (KD, W/L, popularity) is way more influenced by Noobs than by Top Players. Before talking about anyone's ability to read Stats, I suggest you learn how to count and what a "weighted average" is.
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Love how they cant argue with the stats.
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This. Nothing is going to change though, every time someone tries to point this out Hunter mains downvote the post into oblivion, argue against it with opinions that are not backed up by any actual statistics, and claim people use Hunters because they like cloaks 🤦♂️🤦♂️
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lol that's right. When it comes to high competitive end game challenge, most guardians will put cosmetics of looking fabulous over straight up performance, and thus choose hunters. I mean, all you have to do is look at their super cool looking guns in their loadout setups to know looking fantastic with a color coordinated, cute gun is better than ugly ol' meta guns and such........oh wait.....
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Cloaks are visually OP.
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Exactly. [quote]and claim people use Hunters because they like cloaks 🤦♂️🤦♂️[/quote] Especially this... because it's obvious that in a Competitive mode (in which hundreds of ppl have paid real money to be carried), "everyone will care more about how they look rather than their probability of winning lmao."
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[quote]everyone will care more about how they look rather than their probability of winning lmao[/quote] This is legit the type of answers they be giving.
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Classic Hunters with this one aye. Such a cop out. Even still so what if they likes the capes, that's no reason why they shouldn't advocate for balance within their own class when compared to the other two. Anything less than wanting things to be fair and even across the board is just class bias. (This doesn't mean that classes can't be different but that being the case they need to be evenly different and not one statistically better.
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Editado por an Ape with a d2 addiction: 3/2/2020 1:03:39 PMThe one prime reason why hunters are so good in pvp is their instant vertical and horizontal mobility with dodges and hunter jumps. Everything else is just icing on the cake. This applies especially on controller where those instant movements break aim assist stickyness. A lot less so on MnKB but they can still save lives occasionally. And they're always available on-demand. I'd guess biggest design hurdle there would be, how could they tune those aspects down sensibly if they ever went down that road? The class feels fundamentally designed for pvp with it's movevement set.
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Agreed.
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Editado por Eucadia: 3/2/2020 1:39:15 PMIt's fine if a certain character excels at a certain aspect (in this case mobility)... what's not fine is when forgiveness (in the form of dodge) is given to that aspect. If you catch a Hunter badly positioned, you should be rewarded, not them. When that happens, all they have to do is dodge and hide behind cover to escape death (+ regen + reload), which is something Titans and Warlocks can't do.
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Editado por an Ape with a d2 addiction: 3/2/2020 1:49:42 PMDefinetly. Though I do feel what makes hunters so prevalent compared to the other 2 classes is not necessarily that they have the evasive movement tools but that they have them realistically always available. Dodge CD could be a straightforward tweak, but how do you balance the instant vertical mobility that also provides comparable advantages that dodge does (= normal hunter jumps)? I'm not disagreeing by the way. Just pointing out it's a hard thing to balance without touching the class' identity. -- Also on another note, being rewarded for your mistakes and for disproportionally high risks taken is common theme in this game. Wallhacks, health regen on kills, contraheld's damage reduction aggro pushes are the first few that come to mind. This doesn't take away from the hunter dodge/mobility issue by the way. All of these are separate cases that're worth separate attention. Only pointing out the prevalent themes bungo's been driving for a long time. I do think they're all equally badly designed mechanics for the pvp side of the game, but that's neither here or there. D2 is not a competetive game.
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Editado por Azlan: 3/3/2020 2:02:50 AMI agree on the cool down factor, it's that they always have dodge there and ready to use. Addressing the cool down would force them to make more careful decisions about when to use it and to not just spam it. I believe Hunter double and triple jump is the single best movement in the game and it suffers no down sides. No loss of radar, no cool down, no hit box trail like blink and no major weapon ready penalty. Blink is a lesser jump in my opinion and suffers all of these penalties so why shouldn't hunters have to have some kind of cool down or penalties imposed? (Hunters are sweating bullets reading these posts)
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Personally, I don't have a problem dealing with the vertical/horizontal movement of Hunters, just dodge itself. IMO, It shouldn't disable aim-assist, and it should have a longer cooldown.
