Right pieces to the puzzle but assembled somewhat out of order. 1. The meta TTK for regular crucible is about 0.8 to 0.85 secs. Pinnacle weapons...and weapons that operate at shorter ranges (in proximity to shotguns) like SMGs, The Last word and sidearms kill faster. 2. The problem is that this TTK is too slow relative to the speed at which Guardians can move. This results---in high level play---in prmary gunfights that fail to preduce an outcome, and which players never really have to commit to. So---unless you have a Pinnacle in yoru hand---its pretty much a waste of everyone's time to get into a 1v1 primary gun fight. All you do is leave yourself vulnerable to being teamshot, supered, shotgunned, sniped, grenaded and a host of other, faster killing techniques in the game......all for that target running away the moment the momentum of hte fight turns against him or her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFjlO5ZAhNg This video from the late days of D1 when Bungie was trying to deal with special weapons by starving them of ammo, gets to the heart of what is---and has always been---the foundational problem of Destiny's PVP. PRIMARY WEAPONS ARE UNDERPOWERED. The first half (black and white) of the video shows allt the different ways you can step into a 1v1 pirmary gunfight on equal footing and with the advantage....and wind up losing because the TTK is so long. The second half color shows why special weapon and ability spam is so dominant in all high level competitive play. These methods (with the exception of team shooting) are the only ways to actually KILL at teh speed at which play actually moves....and to force an outcome to an encounter before the disadvantaged player can escape. It also allows individual players---with enough skill---to take on multiple opponets. Which forces people to spread out...and gives the game room to breathe. 3. The only way you are ever going to "fix" this games PVP is by doing two things. a. Allow primary weapons to kill FASTER. TTK needs to be reduced to from 0.8 to 0.6 seconds. That will allow primary weapon users to finally become a threat that special weapon users have to respect. b. You need a seperate PVP and PVE sandbox. Because the PVE need for power is working at cross purposes to the PVP need for balance. So---even if you make TTK faster and balance primaries better vis-a-vis special weapons, your'e still going to have distinct metas WITHIN primary weapons and within special weapons.

Before anything dedicated servers ! That’s the only way to start the improvements !

Snipers are not the problem and as a sniper user who’s average at best they are not easy to use. Shotguns and hand canons are the problem because they cover about 98% of gunfight range and all other classes are mediocre at best. I’ve been with two other players sniping against a team of shotgun apes in comp and we lost 0-4 because they rushed so fast even if you stay by cover and try to stay back you never see them on radar until your dead. To everyone’s astonishment not everyone plays with hand canon/shotgun like 90% of the PvP player base in Elim and comp. if you want to run an auto/sidearm or pulse/fusion you should be able to get to legend rank but that is not reality. Bungie needs to give autos a big buff until they can shutdown spare rations within 25m. Crimson should be balanced, no hand canon should even come close to beating a sidearm at close range or be able to beat a pulse at 25m or more. Erentil should not be nerfed because it a casual player problem, players in higher comp have zero problems countering it with Mindbenders.

Most primary's have a very even TTK. Spare rations at 0.8...austringer at 0.87. 180 hancannon is at 1.0 second though. Adaptive auto's at 0.8 High impact auto's at 0.7 Pulses are around 0.8.. high impact is 0.6 if you 2 burst. Sidearms are the only exception...0.6 on adaptive idearms with 4 headshots....lightweight need 5 headshots with same TTK.

The core problem with PVP are the cheaters. That is what is ruining the game. 5 crimson games tonight. 3 confirmed cheaters. It’s just not any fun.

[quote]The core problem with PvP really isn't hard to understand. It's the differing time-to-kills (TTKs) among different gun and/or ability types. Most primary weapons in this game are balanced around a TTK of 0.7+ seconds. The "meta" invariably are guns achieve this consistently via high aim assist (Spare Rations), or can achieve this via much shorter TTKs (shotguns, fusion rifles, snipers, voidwall grenade, The Last Word.) Nevermind anything with a TTK of over 0.8 or 0.9 seconds. You can basically forget about those, except in special circumstances (e.g., Ace of Spades with Memento Mori active). The fundamental problem with PvP in Destiny 2 isn't weapon range or anything terribly complicated. It's that it's a sandbox of stupidly long TTKs (with which you will never kill anybody because f***ing hunters, who are basically 50% of the PvP population, will just dodge into cover) and stupidly short TTKs, many of which are one-shot mechanics. The solution: give all weapon archetypes comparable TTKs at their optimal/intended ranges. This could mean something like buffing primary weapons and/or nerfing special weapons. For example, I always thought it'd be a better idea to have shotguns have longer range, but require more than one shot to kill. Another example: 110rpm hand cannons should flat out have more range than the other archetypes; there's otherwise no goddam reason to use these, ever. This current competitive PvP meta is absolute AIDS. It's snipers camping in every goddam match, because it's a long-range, one-shot, high aim-assist mechanic with NO COUNTERPLAY. You can't even flinch them out of shooting you in the face anymore after the high calibre rounds nerf. Don't tell me, "Oh just don't get shot" because, thanks, Sherlock, but that's how you counterplay every f***ing gun in every f***ing shooter, ever. That's not an actual sniper-specific counter-play mechanic.[/quote] Make set classes,various gun types etc,that way everyone has a fair chance using all the weapons,then it’s down to your own skill how you perform

The real problem with PvP, is people who complain about PvP. Especially when they didn't even pay money for this game.

Actual problem is...the players care more about crucible than Bungie does. Which leads to finger pointing at the differing opinions of how it got this way or how it should be fixed. You will get the same ol Cozmo/Dmg speel eventually. In the meantime Bungie sits back and all sides bickering just hear *crickets* from the source of the problem....Bungie. Until the next paid DLC/Season of course..than Wash, Rinse and Repeat. How folks havent seen this pattern yet is mind boggling.