[quote]Your called a vocal minority for a reason[/quote] That's just it. [b]We aren't anymore. [/b] We just haven't woken up to that fact yet.

Polls, voter turnout, buttgig winning in Iowa, hillary supporters saying they will no longer vote democrat, and a myriad of other events that have happened in the last week would beg to differ.

That's a different issue. Progressives are too married to the notion that their only path to power is to PROTEST the system. Rather than to use the power that they have to CONTROL the system, and make it answer to them. Protest is what you do when you have no power. But when you ARE the power---which is what you are when you are the majority in a democracy----you don't have to protest. You simply give orders to the system, and punish those who do not comply. Democrats. Especially Boomer Democrats picked up a LOT of bad habits during the Wasteland years of the 80s and 90s. They think still think this is a Center Right country and that the only way they can win is to be a less offensive than Republicans on social issues...and be Republican-lite on economic issues. But there has been a tectonic political shift since 2008 and the financial meltdown. As people saw the rich and powerful protect themselves....and leave the average person to their own devices. There has been a political shift to the left on economic issues, that the Democrats have failed to move on. Because Boomer Democrats---which is the vast majority of the leadership----failed to recognize what they were looking at. So right now there is a generational fight for power going on among Democrats between Corporate Boomers...and their Progressive Millennial children. ...and the Millennials are slowly winning....and the Boomers don't want to give up power. But if the Democrats put forward a candidate that can tap into that Populist fervor that Trump leveraged through xenophobia and soft-core White Nationalism, but with something that is more constructive? Trump's done....and possibly the GOP with it for a generation or more. Because the GOP is facing a demographic tidal wave that is either going to sweep them away....or they will be forced to destroy our democracy in a craven need to hold onto power. But their days of holding power under our current system are numbered....and short.

There are too many tribes within the Dem party. I don't see them crossing their inner party lines to vote for a candidate they don't agree with. Warren supporters won't vote for Bernie and vice versa. Almost all of the Dems still in the race have large swaths of their followers that are (insert politician) or bust. Even if they did manage to rally under one banner, they have lost too many Dems in the fly over states. The Dems and the mainstream media are terribly out of touch and focus on Twitter. That will be their downfall. EDIT: Grammar

You can’t judge what’s going on within the Democratic Party by Republicans standards. Democrats never “fall in line”... and their process is always messy. But that’s how Egalitarians roll. Loyalty is commanded, not demanded. I don’t care how messy it gets. The threat to Democrats isn’t factionalism, it’s cynicism. The false belief that the system is too corrupt to fix, and the only solution is to either break it or give up on it. But what is going on right now is the only way the party finds its soul and gets back to its progressive roots. Both in terms of social policy and economic policy. And Democrats will never create a stable majority coalition until they can offer a disenfranchised and exploited white working class something to rally around. The problem is that that working class has been convinced by the Right that they are being threatened racially and culturally. When the reality is that they are being exploited on a class basis predominantly by other, wealthier white people. Enriching themselves at their expense. The same ones calling for racial and cultural solidarity from those they are economically -blam!-ing over....

AGAIN! I am a Registered Democrat and my grandfather has the worst case of TDS I have ever seen. We are being racially and culturally threatened. The massive amount of illegals here having kids is why. They came here illegally, they don't respect our laws, they don't respect our values and then they turn around and teach that same animosity to their kids which are citizens, due to the bullshit laws that give children born here citizenship. But that is besides the point. It still stands that the Democratic party is shattered.

[quote] It still stands that the Democratic party is shattered.[/quote] The party was shattered 40 years ago when Reagan broke the New Deal Coalition on a permanent basis....and lured working class whites to the GOP (Reagan Democrats). The point is that the Democrats have been wandering in the desert for 40 years trying to find their souls again. Democrats aren't going to win trying to be less offensive Republicans. They need to be DEMOCRATS again, and stop being apologetic about it....and stop acting like being a Progressive or a "Liberal" is something to be embarrassed about. The people like your grandfather are simply not persuadable----as you probably are more aware of than I am. So Democrats need stop walking around in fear of his vote, and work to mobilize the people who ARE persuadable. There are more of those people....now....than there are people like your Grandfahter. There reason they are so angry...so hostile...and trying to revive a very ugly kind of politics is because they can feel the tide of Time turning against them....and their power slipping away. Because it is....and it is.....

The problem is, they aren't doing any of that, they are all trying to out radical the others. They are all racing for the proverbial edge. At least the current candidates are. They are all cultivating a niche following that will do them no good in the election itself. The only thing they agree on is free health insurance for illegals...... Are they nuckin futs? Rhetorical question!

What they aren’t being radical. Where we are right now is what is radical. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are just talking about taking the party back to what it was 40 years ago. It’s just that the Conservative Movement and Media has hijacked our political narrative and vocabulary. But the political shift to the right of the 1980s is both literally and figuratively dying off.

There is nothing radical about wanting secured borders and prioritizing citizens over freeloaders that came here illegally. The fact you don't see how radical bernie is, is just terrifying. As for warren, I don't know what she believes, because she can't stop lying. Bernie isn't a social democrat or what ever moniker one of his aids came up with within the last 48 hrs, he is and always has been a communist.

It is when those borders aren't where you're vulnerable IN REALITY...and those people you're trying to keep out aren't freeloaders. In fact they are being economically exploited. But what Trump is pushing isn't about facts or actually security. It is a toxic form of identity politics that we've been conditioned in this country to NOT see as Identity politics. Instead we give this mindset quaint names like "Reagan Democrats" and "Politics of White Greivance". [quote]The fact you don't see how radical bernie is, is just terrifying[/quote] And THAT's the political narrative of the Conservative Movement speaking. I just turned 52. Which means I'm old enough to remember what this country was life BEFORE the Reagan Revolution and the tectonic shift to the Right that led us to where we are now. The only thing that is laughable or terrifying is the fact that our politics are so distorted and ideologically dysfunctional that anyone actually takes the notion that Bernie is a "Socialist"....or even a Social Democrat seriously. https://khn.org/news/nixon-proposal/ That's a speech from 1974 from the FIRST President who sought to get a Universal Healthcare plan passed. One RICHARD NIXON. A CONSERVATIVE. Oh, and that same Nixon that created the EPA and passed the Clean Water Act that the Trump administration is trying to gut. I could go through his platform point by point....but the bottomline is that Sanders is supporting policies that BOTH parties were in favor of back in the 1970s when BOTH parties were actually interested in serving the American people.... ...rather than their corporate donors. When the Republican Party was actually a supporter of the social safety net. Rather than trying to shred it...and return us to the Gilded Age. When Robber Barons lived like Royalty...and most Americans lived hand-to-mouth....and worked 6 days a week. Sanders is not a "communist"....and the people who are telling you he is are knowingly LYING to you, in an effort to protect their wealth and power OVER you. Because they are terrified of supporting progressive social initiatives that look to invest the nation's wealth in the potential of its citizens....rather than supporting the lavish lifestyles of a mercantile aristocracy. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism [i]generally English speakers use communism to talk about the political and economic ideologies that find their origin in Karl Marx’s theory of revolutionary socialism, which advocates a proletariat overthrow of capitalist structures within a society; societal and communal ownership and governance of the means of production; and the eventual establishment of a classless society. The most well-known expression of Marx’s theories is the 20th-century Bolshevism of the U.S.S.R., in which the state, through a single authoritarian party, controlled a society’s economic and social activities with the goal of realizing Marx’s theories.[/i] Also being 52 means I grew up doing the Cold War... so I know what REAL communism and communist countries looked like. I was 21 years old and in grad school in 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell. And until Sanders starts talking about the REVOLUTIONARY takeover and DICTATORSHIP by the nation's working class.....the ABOLITION of any-and-all PRIVATE PROPERTY.....the ELIMINATION of all FREE ENTERPRISE, GOVERNMENT OWNERSHIP of all means of economic production and the CENTRAL GOVERNMENT PLANNING of all economic activity.... HE IS NOBODY's COMMUNIST. What Sanders is----in reality----IS A REGULATED CAPITALIST. The problem is we have been living with a political climate in this country that has been dominated by Freemarket Fundamentalism and Ayn Rand's Objectivism. The latter of which is a morally bankrupt political ideology that tries to present garden variety selfishness (and arguably Ms Rand's psychopathology) as if it were in service of some greater good.... ...and the other is an extremist ideology of political economy that Free Markets are an intrinsic good, regardless fo the harm they cause. IOW that people exist to serve markets, rather than markets exist to serve people.

First off, ignoring the border because you don't deem it as important isn't an excuse and yes illegals are freeloaders. [url]https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs[/url] I'm not going to humor your identity politics argument considering that is all the left has been doing since long before Trump decided to run for office. You seem to be forgetting that Bernie staffers are more than happy to exclaim they are communist. They are also still employed after what they said, so I can only assume bernie is ok with their radical ideology. I don't care about your life story. Trying to tell me one thing when I can plainly see it isn't true isn't going to fly.

1. I never said ignore it....and I've never heard any Democratic leader that anyone takes seriously ever say to ignore it. 2. And no they aren't free loaders. In fact they are an integral part of our economy. Which is why the GOPs corporate masters don't WANT our immigration problem fixed. They are a cheap and easily exploitable work force. https://www.vox.com/2019/3/1/18241692/undocumented-immigrants-pay-state-local-taxes [quote]I'm not going to humor your identity politics argument considering that is all the left has been doing since long[/quote] 3. Of course, because its only "identity politics" when people of color engage in it. Gee....what was I thinking.... [quote]You seem to be forgetting that Bernie staffers are more than happy to exclaim they are communist. [/quote] 4. So-the--blam!--what? That's "Guilt by Association" bullshit. Staffers are NOT the candidate....and the candidate can't be **reasonably** tarred with every little stupid thing some random person in some distant office said by someone he's likely never met has to say. [quote]I don't care about your life story. [/quote] 5. Course you don't. Because what I've learned in it doesn't support the narrative you wish to push. But Reality doesn't give a shit about Ideology....and I've watched the ideology whose talking points you are blindly spouting grow up, and take hold of this country. ...and I'm old enough to remember when the country wasn't like this. ...and I'm old enough to not let someone tell me that somethign that ISN"T communist, somehow is. This isn't "1984" and I don't do "Newspeak". Because---as George Orwell noted----the best way to deny people the freedom to engage in unacceptable thoughts, is to DENY them the vocabulary to do so. Like defining any philosophical notions that threaten the power and privilege of the wealthy and powerful as "communist" [b][i]"When I feed the poor, they call me a saint. But when I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist".[/i][/b] ---Dom Helder Camara.

[quote]I never said ignore it....and I've never heard any Democratic leader that anyone takes seriously ever say to ignore it.[/quote] Your right, I don't take any of the Dem leaders seriously. [quote]And no they aren't free loaders. In fact they are an integral part of our economy. Which is why the GOPs corporate masters don't WANT our immigration problem fixed. They are a cheap and easily exploitable work force. [/quote] Wellfare says otherwise. The most common job done by illegals is construction and they are by no means working for pennies on the dollar. They are making as much as $25 an hour locally. [quote]Of course, because its only "identity politics" when people of color engage in it. Gee....what was I thinking....[/quote] I didn't even know what nationality you were till last week, so that holds no bearing here. [quote] So-the--blam!--what? That's "Guilt by Association" bullshit. Staffers are NOT the candidate....and the candidate can't be **reasonably** tarred with every little stupid thing some random person in some distant office said by someone he's likely never met has to say.[/quote] Sucks when you have to stare at your own hypocrisy doesn't it. Trump has openly condemned racism and racist groups yet he is still called a Knotsee. Yet Bernie won't even condemn the radicals within his own campaign, but he is given a free pass. [quote]Course you don't.[/quote] Yeah... I don't and you don't care about mine either. It's mutual!

Thank you for making my point for me.