So I want to have a discussion to try and figure out a rough power order for the entities we currently know of and to just generally discuss power levels within the Destiny Universe. One thing that I don't think will be of much debate is that the Darkness is probably the most powerful entity in the lore. Unveiling basically says it defeated the Traveler during their first confrontation, and while people say to take it a biased, I think that countless Collapse style scenarios have proved the Darkness is more powerful. That said, it seems that even the Darkness relies somewhat on physical combat techniques as well, such as what seems to be some kind of big gravity weapon. The question is more about the order after that. Would the Traveler be second? One might think so, but I'm not so sure. Oryx and the Hive defeated it in the whirlwind, for instance. I think it's kind of hard to tell, probably because the Traveler's power is mostly oriented towards creating life as opposed to destruction. Speaking of things which are powerful in specific ways but not necessarily in terms of basic destructive capability, the Ahamkara. Plenty of people describe the Ahamkara as super powerful, but once again I don't think so, not on their own. While Ahamkara wish magic is super powerful, it can only be used in certain situations, relying on having a wishmaker to manipulate. Thus, while this magic is very powerful, it can only be used in certain situations, and thus failed to prevent the doom of the Ahamkara species, (a feature I like, where there's an extreme power, but requires cunning strategy to use effectively.) It stands to reason that the strongest Ahamkara was probably Riven, as she had the extra advantage of having been taken. Their ability to affect things after death is noted, but we have yet to see if this is part of some grand plan for the downfall of humanity. The next thing to discuss is the Worm Gods and the big three hive. I would imagine that when combined, the Worm Gods probably have the power to destroy the Hive. But individually, a Worm God is not as powerful as a single Hive monarch (i.e Oryx killing Akka). I generally get the impression that the big three have more power than the Worm Gods but also get the impression that the Worm Gods have a kill switch on each of them that they can use if they are in agreement. Xol wasn't particularly strong, but we have heard that he is the weakest Worm God. Of the sisters, I imagine Oryx being historically the most powerful in terms of sheer strength. But by now Savathun is probably stronger courtesy of the Curse on the Dreaming City and her other machinations. The Hive in general have some other super strong things worth noting. For example, we've newly discovered about the Choir, deathsingers with the ability to destroy entire planets with their song. I'll admit my knowledge of the Nine isn't particularly great, but I do know that they seem to be very powerful, and exist as (dark matter?) that spreads throughout the universe and they want to be given physical form. The Vex have a seemingly endless supply of troops and control over time and space, an ability that rarely seems to be used to the kind of power it should have. Calus has suggested we haven't even seen their proper battle frames yet which is encouraging, but what we've faced thus far has been fairly underwhelming. The Sol Progeny, with extra power granted from the Darkness have been pretty tough, but still not crazy. Calus talks big game and clearly has some degree of power, between the Leviathan, his strong machine clones, his legions and his knowledge of what is happening around him. But I do not believe he is particularly powerful when faced with some of the other opponents here. Guardians have paracausal power and have handed most enemy factions their asses time and time again, but have not really faced much of the big powers fueling these armies. Ignoring plot armour, we now know that they can be killed and are not necessarily strong enough based on Light alone. Mara is somewhat powerful in terms of abilities, but her major strength is her cunning and understanding of her enemies. Rasputin is pretty strong in terms of tactical prowess and technological solutions, but certainly isn't on par with some of these other players in terms of one vs one battle capability. The Eliksni aren't really a massive threat, even when powered by SIVA. They have no paracausal powers and they have a long way to go before they could even hope to face most of these enemies. Surely I'm forgetting a bunch of stuff here, but yeah, let's just have a general discussion on power levels of enemies.