Raise your intellect stat. I personally enjoy the mid game of Code of the Juggernaut (bottom striker) and I often can't wait for the super to be over so I can get back to the shooting.

[quote]You forgot to include that it will take 50% longer to get a super. Listed in the recent nerfs to supers. This was one of the biggest sources for complaints from D1 to D2 players. Yet again power fantasy goes THWWWWIP. This just tightens the meta setups of PvE, and LFG posts are going to be like D1. musht have X gun with Y perk and Z exotic running A subclass and B exotic armour with C armour setup. Its people being told how to play, rather than actually discovering a better way to play.[/quote] You do know Strength/Intellect/Discipline are returning, right? That cooldown, with the right rolls, will be incredibly slim. Even without going for an intellect build it will still probably be reduced by whatever intellect you have on that piece. So, in conclusion, that fear probably won't come true unless there are nerds to weapons as well.

S/I/D will most likely bring super regen time to just below what we have now (best case scenario), with an extremely specific build, limiting your choices in other areas, further limiting your exotic choices I don't see it as a good thing, especially with Bungie being very heavy handed with all the nerfs. I'm just waiting for XP gate part 2 and the laughter will be followed by tears, then a click as I hit uninstall

[quote]S/I/D will most likely bring super regen time to just below what we have now (best case scenario), with an extremely specific build, limiting your choices in other areas, further limiting your exotic choices I don't see it as a good thing, especially with Bungie being very heavy handed with all the nerfs. I'm just waiting for XP gate part 2 and the laughter will be followed by tears, then a click as I hit uninstall[/quote] Okay, one, holy crap that is the fastest I've ever had someone reply to me on the forums. Two, I think that with bare minimum intellect tier, it should be near, or slightly below, current regen. However, how would that affect your exotic choice or subclass? Unless I am doing a raid, which often the reason why you change to certain weapons or subclasses (which, again, is more for the sake of common sense than anything else. When was the last time you saw someone run striker in a raid?), I won't be changing just to fit the meta. As for your final part, I personally agree, but that's opinion and speculation more than anything else. Now, I will be preoccupied for a moment, so I won't be able to reply immediately. Have a good day.

OK Lets look at the proposed Ward of Dawn changes. Maybe you need 3 wards for 1 encounter, but you need to run 9 intellect. Lets be honest, endgame content is going to require a 6 stack of bubble titans for here on in with the all the nerf bats flying. Also this brings up that this is only a subset of the "changes" or "improvements" they are making. Who knows what other stealth nerf shruikens going to be flying around SK Lets also say you also need to run melee for over shield as there are masses of thrall in order to support you hunters running 0 resilience as they are running 1-2 punch liars handshake and have build problems of their own, but you can't run both. is Synthocepts or Saint 14 the better choice? Synthocepts take your I down to 5 and buffs your melee to 8 and Saint 14 takes intellect to the desired 9 but reduces your melee to 4. Also you need to run Bad Juju regardless to compensate for the reduced super charge times. and that has your current gauntlets have affinity with pulse rifles, but Synthocepts do not. Someone puts a gun to your head, so what do you do? [spoiler]Just run Super Good Advice and run off the nearest clift, REEEEEEE!!! lol. I;m glad I can amuse myself[/spoiler]

[quote]OK Lets look at the proposed Ward of Dawn changes. Maybe you need 3 wards for 1 encounter, but you need to run 9 intellect. Lets be honest, endgame content is going to require a 6 stack of bubble titans for here on in with the all the nerf bats flying. Also this brings up that this is only a subset of the "changes" or "improvements" they are making. Who knows what other stealth nerf shruikens going to be flying around SK Lets also say you also need to run melee for over shield as there are masses of thrall in order to support you hunters running 0 resilience as they are running 1-2 punch liars handshake and have build problems of their own, but you can't run both. is Synthocepts or Saint 14 the better choice? Synthocepts take your I down to 5 and buffs your melee to 8 and Saint 14 takes intellect to the desired 9 but reduces your melee to 4. Also you need to run Bad Juju regardless to compensate for the reduced super charge times. and that has your current gauntlets have affinity with pulse rifles, but Synthocepts do not. Someone puts a gun to your head, so what do you do? [spoiler]Just run Super Good Advice and run off the nearest clift, REEEEEEE!!! lol. I;m glad I can amuse myself[/spoiler][/quote] Okay, the issue is that a ward or well is never needed for said endgame content, but is highly recommended. That is one thing we must both recognize right off the bat. Also, we must both also recognize that when a guardian entered their super, they were pretty much invulnerable. That's still going to be the case, only with slightly more risk, though that risk is still marginal since TTK with supers are incredibly fast. Also, your metaphorical situation has an issue. Whenever you know you are running into a situation with a certain increase in a type of enemy (in your case, thrall), you always go for something that will help with melee and close range weaponry. Much like if you know you are going to be facing a higher amount of high level enemies, you would go for Helm of Saint-14, since ward/guard has a blinding effect on all enemies. As for Bad JuJu, if I can't play without using my super, then I shouldn't be playing in the first place. That is what I feel Bungie had thought of with these nerfs, that the game has become more of a, "Super 2: Forsaken", rather than actually relying upon skill with our weaponry. However, that is a debatable topic. Point is, I don't think it should be as bad as base D2, but I also don't think with how supers are now that they should be exactly at the same recharge rate. With armor 2.0, you can simply change the mod unless you used all your Glimmer, so that's not really a concern. Overall though, you do have some solid points. I would again also restate that I don't necessarily completely agree, but that I do recognize where Bungie is coming from with these changes. Have a good day!

I;ve been here since D1 Beta day 1. Bungie has always followed these steps Ignore the player base Build content Ignore the player base Build a meta Ignore the player base build reliance on a meta for the content Ignore the player base nerf the meta Ignore the player base Rinse and repeat Right now I like how Destiny 2 plays and I didn't when i came from D1. Seems like its that way again.

[quote]I;ve been here since D1 Beta day 1. Bungie has always followed these steps Ignore the player base Build content Ignore the player base Build a meta Ignore the player base build reliance on a meta for the content Ignore the player base nerf the meta Ignore the player base Rinse and repeat Right now I like how Destiny 2 plays and I didn't when i came from D1. Seems like its that way again.[/quote] Well, we shall have to see if they break that cycle while still trying to keep some of that enjoyment for your and other players like you.

the Cynic in me sees that this looks like a quick win in the nostalgia department. With atheon being a nightmare and Ward being , well, trash next to the other supers, this could put a big tick in the feels box for returning D1 players. I just don't see the enjoyment here. Destiny is all about building your own power fantsy from the boots up. How does not using your super 50% less increase that player enjoyment factor, or build on the "5 minutes of fun loop"? If spike nades don't get nerf'd in the next round, I'll eat my hat. We're having too much fun one phasing stuff.

[quote]the Cynic in me sees that this looks like a quick win in the nostalgia department. With atheon being a nightmare and Ward being , well, trash next to the other supers, this could put a big tick in the feels box for returning D1 players. I just don't see the enjoyment here. Destiny is all about building your own power fantsy from the boots up. How does not using your super 50% less increase that player enjoyment factor, or build on the "5 minutes of fun loop"? If spike nades don't get nerf'd in the next round, I'll eat my hat. We're having too much fun one phasing stuff.[/quote] Personally, I simply want to see what is new on the moon and how this will affect the story going forward. The Nightmares are simply something in that way, so. As for spike nades, I doubt they'll get nerfed. Besides, with grenade launchers you'll still get that one phase, and they said that they don't plan on nerfing grenade launchers.

Wanting to see whats new on the moon. Thats the biggest paradox. More reskins and re-used content. New light is the same as new coke. no one asked for it and its not as good as old coke, or coke classic This new info has nerf'd my enthusiasm for the new content. Just seems like when they look like the actually learned something, WHACK nerf bat right in the nuts every time.

[quote]Wanting to see whats new on the moon. Thats the biggest paradox. More reskins and re-used content. New light is the same as new coke. no one asked for it and its not as good as old coke, or coke classic This new info has nerf'd my enthusiasm for the new content. Just seems like when they look like the actually learned something, WHACK nerf bat right in the nuts every time.[/quote] That is where I strongly disagree. From what we have seen and heard, the new moon is double the size of the original. Furthermore, that type of hive architecture has not been seen before, so that is why I am curious. New Light is more for gaining new players rather than introducing new content. With the split between them and Activision, they no longer have funds to rely upon. This move gives them a chance to gain those funds back. And again, often times when you sit back and look it at, you can see the reason for those nerfs. Have a good day.

Double the size is fine, but what are they going to fill that space with? New light is gaining players because they said its free to play. And them not having highmoon and Vicarious this time round makes me extremely nervous, as they will not have the extra manpower to push out the content at the pace we witnessed from warmind onwards. Especially when a good portion of the studio will be devoted to whatever netease gave them 100 million dollar-y-doos to do and on top of that they will need to work on the next expansion. With all the nerfs, this just signals to me that they want, no they NEED players not to blow through 1.5 hrs of content in, ..., well, 1.5 hrs You and I don't see eye to eye, but take a look at the new boss, it the same as the old boss. The bottom line, and specifically how are they going to fatten that up. Eververse seems likely to make up a revenue stream. Why not its been lucrative in the past?! Now we have an excuse not to push content, because we're poor, or there wasn't enough revenue generated, etc, etc I've seen this before from Bungie, this has all happened before and it will happen again. I've also seen people blindly defend bungie to the death and not look at past behaviours to determine what they are most likely to do now they have no over-site and are running on their own "moral compass" Enjoy all the new nerfs, sorry I mean "content"

[quote]Double the size is fine, but what are they going to fill that space with? New light is gaining players because they said its free to play. And them not having highmoon and Vicarious this time round makes me extremely nervous, as they will not have the extra manpower to push out the content at the pace we witnessed from warmind onwards. Especially when a good portion of the studio will be devoted to whatever netease gave them 100 million dollar-y-doos to do and on top of that they will need to work on the next expansion. With all the nerfs, this just signals to me that they want, no they NEED players not to blow through 1.5 hrs of content in, ..., well, 1.5 hrs You and I don't see eye to eye, but take a look at the new boss, it the same as the old boss. The bottom line, and specifically how are they going to fatten that up. Eververse seems likely to make up a revenue stream. Why not its been lucrative in the past?! Now we have an excuse not to push content, because we're poor, or there wasn't enough revenue generated, etc, etc I've seen this before from Bungie, this has all happened before and it will happen again. I've also seen people blindly defend bungie to the death and not look at past behaviours to determine what they are most likely to do now they have no over-site and are running on their own "moral compass" Enjoy all the new nerfs, sorry I mean "content"[/quote] And this is where I end this debate. I have already explained the why for multiple of these issues, yet you seem unwilling to listen to them. Content always has and always will be pushed upon people in games like this, much like the newest product is pushed up to the stage and shown around. I've explained that I don't mecissarily agree, but that I see where they are coming from. Feel free to call me someone who blindmy defends them to the death even though that statement is false based off my previous words. And finally, if you want people to take you a bit seriously, don't end off your posts with a snide remark. It often makes you seem like a -Blam!-hole. Good day.

Some supers generate there own super energy in pve...plus bad juju is here if you soley care about super times

Not going to happen with the PvE meta setups getting smaller. Too bad if your a newer player. LFG going to be like, must have some "exotic" legendary that takes 90hrs to get plus 5000 clears. May as well just go play Anthem

Or just do it day one if possible

Fine if you have your own team and can no life this for a Day 1 finish. I solo queue for everything and don;t really care about endgame content, and can't put any more that 5-6 hr a week to this Honestly, If I new these changes were coming I'd have not bothered to pick Destiny back up again, after staying away more that a year. But I'm curious how much of a train wreck SK is going to be with newlight and the boutique style paid content drops.

I literally have one friend i play with regularly, but if you really want to do it week 1 simply set up a lfg in advance

Getting the raid lairs done week 1 is more than doable. The proper, once a year raids though? For the average player week 2 is a realistic time to go for a clear.

I think I'd rather see them lean into the Dungeons rather than raid layers. Also they haven;t released a raid layer since Mercury launched? Guess the feedback wasn't good on that. Easier to organise, quicker to play, decent lootz. Less hastle. The best thing about Crotas End was that you could do it in about 30-45 mins regardless of players skill or weapons.