I dont mind being the support player.

But unless they completely destroy Luna it will still be meta. It will just be a less powerful one than now. The only way to actually fix the problem they are aiming at is to stop making stationary DPS boss cycles. If they did that all these nerf wouldn’t have been required and they aren’t fixing the problem anyway.

Then don’t? I mean no offense but you act as if you aren’t given any choice at any time. It’s the same bs excuse people gave re Ikelos Shotty nerfing to be nerfed, only for them to still use it or the 2-3 newer versions of it later. I don’t know about you, but I run with what I deem useful for the part I’m on. You guys act as if well was the only thing you ever use. The only one I have never used in content is top tree DB. That’s literally it. Endgame activities I use multiple setups depending on what my role is within the team. Which is how it should be. Maybe the group you play with is the issue? Just a thought.

[quote]Then don’t? I mean no offense but you act as if you aren’t given any choice at any time. It’s the same bs excuse people gave re Ikelos Shotty nerfing to be nerfed, only for them to still use it or the 2-3 newer versions of it later.[/quote] Because in many cases, you're not. I'm typically not team leader with the groups that I raid with...and not-running the meta is simply not a hill I'm willing to die on. Its just not worth alienating people over. Especially when its being done as a reasonable reaction to some bad game design decisions by Bungie. A point Luke Smith seems willing to own up to.

Then maybe it’s just me and the groups I’ve raided with over the years. I mean don’t get me wrong, I ran into a use X requirement for Self Res in Oryx KF, and I convinced my team to allow me to run Obsidian Nova instead, which ended up becoming my staple loadout for the duration of my KF runs to where less tethers were used, and hunters were free to switch things up as well. Here’s the thing though. You are not required to use one load out. You feel like you do because of pressure or for max DPS runs, but you are not locked to that. For example, on CoS since I tended to try and be the guy blessed at the end, I used Storm to keep adds off my teammates who were DPSing the boss (you have no idea how much that helps, btw). I’ve also used Chaos+Geos for a Pseudo Nighthawk to help w the main boss of the same raid. You are not obligated to stay in one role. You just choose to do so, which is fine. I like playing support at times, and love when I know I have a place in a raid if I feel I need to fulfill that spot. But I’m not obligated to fill that role. That is my choice. It helps to be versed in other means anyway, because Well has only been around since LW. Tell me then, what is going to happen once WoL comes back? Are we going to complain about Titans being “forced” into a specific role too, esp since if the rumors of the auto loading exotics are true, that there is a safe space for reloads? I mean really think about it for a minute. Odds are you are going to see that same argument made re titans, who arguably have some of the worst PvE supers in the game. But this same song and dance will be repeated then. All it takes is people to put things down and experiment a little. You’ll find that well and the like, while useful, are not the be all end all loadout. But as I stated before, maybe I have just been lucky to have groups that want to experiment with different loadouts to make encounters run smoother. Hell, we could all just be bored of the stand in one spot bosses and are trying to mix things up a bit because Bungie won’t. Maybe how you describe your groups are like is the majority of D2 raiders? I don’t LFG for Raids, so I’m not versed in how they do things. Maybe that is also why D2 raids are just boring and uninspired for me. I dunno.

[quote]Maybe how you describe your groups are like is the majority of D2 raiders?[/quote] That's been my experience....and LFG is even worse. I've had people bail on LFG raid groups after ONE wipe. ...and few groups are going to tolerate multiple wipes if someone is running a non-meta loadout. Even if you aren't the weak link, they are going to get frustrated and start to look for an easy solution to their lack of success. ...and success these days is largely considered one-phasing a boss.

See here’s the thing though. I’m not above just buckling down and using the Well role. It actually doesn’t bother me one bit, as there are very few instances in the game I even use the subclass in general. The catch is, I also don’t raid as much as I used to out of sheer boredom honestly. So maybe for me it’s a little different. So perhaps that also is a factor involved. Besides, I can’t play too much meta, as I don’t own either 1K or anarchy, despite many runs and partial runs for keys. So if either find some prominence, I’m already lacking in that dept. I already get groans from teammates wanting to use Anarchy on pt 1 Ghalran for me not having it (ironically the same guys who said they would help run it, then never do). But I never get that feeling of “ugh I have to run well again”. when on my warlock. Neither did I get that way with Bubble in D1, though I do admit I really get tired of running tether on my hunter. Might be just how I think of characters in specific roles, and the fact that I play a GG main. Perhaps that is the feeling you are describing having?

Too bad Well of Radiance is literally like the only actual support class in the game. Depending how fast the reload is (I'm guessing it'll be close to Outlaw) it's still gonna be best in slot and prefered. (Unless we got some stupidly crazy new exotic in ShadowKeep) It's never going away as the "why aren't you running Well and Luna?" class. lol

Oh its not going to go away. Which is why a change in Bungie's design philosophy needs to take place. Otherwise all you're going to get is people just STACKING multiple wells. Or stacking multiple buffs in response. The problem isn't the meta per se. Its that Bungie keeps presenting us with the same problem over and over again....and is getting frustrated with the fact that we've MASTERED solving it.

lol, somebody never played d1, where everyone was like, we need titan mandatory.... dont worry.. we are returning to that again it seems

That was for Vault of Glass and Kingsfall. Not Wrath of The Machine. Defender Titans really weren't usefull for anything other than Voksis part 2 and the central area of the Aksis fight. But even those weren't mandatory if you knew what you were doing. Also, teams weren't looking to one-phase as a means of trying to avoid the whole revive token business.

A titan bubble was useful for the siege engine or whatever it was called

The Seige engine wasn't really considered a boss fight.

Like what? It'll still be required for reloading fast and the damage if there's no Bubble Nothing has been achieved

They're hinting that they are also going to change their raid design philosophy. In Wrath of the Machine, there was enough variety to the fights (and snipers were strong enough) that there was room for a lot of variety in builds. Now every raid boss fight is a variation of the Golgoroth fight. What I've simply come to call "The Synchronized Damage Dump." Then add to that the pressure created by the Revive Token system....and now everyone is looking to end the fight as fast as possible to avoid the forced wipe. Its turned raiding into this really narrow experience where you just drop wells....and then damage stack. It feels less like a fight for you life...and more like an exercise in synchronized shooting.